The Sound of Summer
Wed, Aug 5, 2026 Year 3, Winter 5Codey and Kelly talk about Silksong.
Timings
00:00:00: Theme Tune
00:00:30: Intro
00:02:29: What Have We Been Up To
00:10:18: Codey’s Entomology Corner
01:39:21: Silksong
02:20:43: Outro
Links
Nysius Wekiuicola
Codey Quoted In a News Article
Contact
Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot
Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/
Transcript
Theme Tune
Intro
(30s) Codey:
Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season.
(33s)
My name is Cody.
(35s) Kelly:
And my name is Kelly.
(35s) Codey:
And we are here to talk today to talk about cottage core games.
(39s)
Oh, woo-hoo, specifically bugs, and specifically silk songs.
(40s) Kelly:
Woo!
(43s)
Yeah.
(47s) Codey:
When, uh, we decided to do Bug Month, I told Al, like, you do realise that means we can’t, like, you can’t hold off silk song anymore.
(57s)
Not that he was, but like, it’s happening.
(1m 1s)
It’s got to happen.
(1m 2s)
Um, and of course, I can’t do silk songs with anyone other than Kelly.
(1m 8s)
Because
(1m 9s) Kelly:
I think it was, it was meant to be, like, you know, we pushed it off without realising that it had a moment that we were waiting for.
(1m 14s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1m 15s)
But I feel like we’re just, we’re both so, like, I love our friendship because we’re both so just like,
(1m 22s)
Eh, you’ll pop back into my life.
(1m 23s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, we’ll figure this out.
(1m 23s) Codey:
Like, we’ll talk again eventually.
(1m 26s) Kelly:
It’ll come back around.
(1m 27s) Codey:
It’ll come back around, like neither of us are like, where did she go?
(1m 27s) Kelly:
Don’t worry.
(1m 31s)
Yeah, and I know you were like so busy with like uh, everything.
(1m 31s) Codey:
It was just fine.
(1m 34s) Kelly:
I think you were like starting your dissertation or like.
(1m 35s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1m 38s)
I think I was fin- I was writing it.
(1m 38s) Kelly:
Finishing it up.
(1m 39s) Codey:
I was writing that, um, plus I was finishing like some of my, I, there was just, it’s been a while.
(1m 40s) Kelly:
Yeah, that’s what it was.
(1m 45s) Codey:
been a lot that’s been going on in the last almost years.
(1m 49s)
It’s almost been a year that this game has been out.
(1m 51s)
My goodness.
(1m 51s)
Um, so yeah.
(1m 54s)
Uh, but that’s what we’re going to talk today about, uh, at the end of my bug rant because of course this is a bug month episode.
(2m 1s)
So there will be, what is, uh, what is in the show notes as Cody’s entomology corner.
(2m 6s)
Um, but it’s really, this is the bulk of the episode, and then we sprinkle a little bit of a talk.
(2m 14s)
Because I do like to yap.
(2m 17s)
And we don’t have any news.
(2m 19s)
Um, this episode, uh, after Bug Month is done.
(2m 23s)
There will be a big news episode, I’m sure.
(2m 25s)
But before we jump into like my entomology corner, Kelly, what have you been up to?
What Have We Been Up To
(2m 30s) Codey:
If you’ve been listening to anything, reading anything, watching anything fun?
(2m 35s) Kelly:
Um, I did watch a crazy stop motion last weekend, uh, called Mad God.
(2m 38s) Codey:
Okay.
(2m 39s)
Okay.
(2m 41s) Kelly:
Um, so it was made by Phil Tippet, who worked on all of like the old Star Wars, um, Uh, Oh my god, I’m blanking on the word, but like all of the pieces to the old Star Wars that they used to actually shoot the movie when everything was physical.
(2m 57s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2m 57s)
Yeah.
(2m 58s) Kelly:
So he spent 30 years building all of the pieces for this movie.
(3m 3s) Codey:
Oh my gosh.
(3m 3s) Kelly:
And it’s a very odd and graphic and uh, disturbing and confusing movie.
(3m 12s) Codey:
Okay.
(3m 12s) Kelly:
Um, but like also so incredible to see like a whole world built like that in stop motion.
(3m 18s) Codey:
Yeah.
(3m 19s) Kelly:
Um, so…
(3m 21s)
Like, I want to tell people to watch it, but also, like, it’s a lot as well.
(3m 25s) Codey:
So, if you, so, I mean, like the, I guess the question would be who, it’s like the, if you liked blank, you should see blank.
(3m 34s) Kelly:
Oh, man.
(3m 34s) Codey:
Like, do you have a thing?
(3m 35s) Kelly:
Well.
(3m 36s)
So it is a horror movie, but like it’s kind of existential.
(3m 38s) Codey:
Okay.
(3m 42s) Kelly:
Um…
(3m 43s) Codey:
Like psychological horror.
(3m 44s) Kelly:
Kind of like.
(3m 45s) Codey:
And also physical.
(3m 47s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, um, hmm.
(3m 52s)
I genuinely don’t know.
(3m 55s) Codey:
Okay, well, did you enjoy it?
(3m 56s) Kelly:
I did, I did enjoy it.
(3m 57s) Codey:
Okay.
(3m 59s) Kelly:
I think, um, uh, I was left questioning a lot of it at first, but like after thinking about it, I was like, I do want to watch this again because, like, it was very interesting.
(3m 59s) Codey:
What’s the most?
(4m 8s)
Okay.
(4m 10s) Kelly:
Um,
(4m 11s) Codey:
Okay.
(4m 11s) Kelly:
But besides that, I’ve been playing esoteric ebb, which is like a D&D, um, RPG.
(4m 18s)
Uh, I don’t know if you’ve played like Disco Elysium, but it’s very similar to that.
(4m 24s) Codey:
Uh, I have not, but I know the I know about of it, so.
(4m 28s) Kelly:
So if you do like games like Disco Elysium, it’s very similar to that, I would recommend people who like that game to play that.
(4m 35s)
And it’s like mediaeval.
(4m 37s) Codey:
Well, that’s I, I’m a sucker for like the fantasy, like mediaeval realm of things.
(4m 40s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(4m 43s) Codey:
Um, I am also not in a place to do like a story, though.
(4m 48s) Kelly:
No, and it’s so unlike Disco Elysium, which has like a ton of voice acting, this is all reading.
(4m 54s) Codey:
Mm.
(4m 54s) Kelly:
So I think the game would not have taken me as long if I was not trying to read every single ounce of information.
(5m 2s) Codey:
Yeah.
(5m 2s)
That can be really difficult because, like, you might be really into it like one time that you’re playing, but then you might pick up the game and be like, I just want to hack and slash.
(5m 11s)
But, but, but you can’t because you have to read.
(5m 11s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm, exactly.
(5m 15s)
Yeah.
(5m 16s)
So I guess technically I was playing and reading that.
(5m 20s)
Um, what have you been up to?
(5m 20s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(5m 22s)
Um, so I, I’ve seen the Odyssey.
(5m 26s)
Um, I liked that a lot.
(5m 26s) Kelly:
Oh, nice.
(5m 29s) Codey:
Um, I also overcame, uh, something in that.
(5m 35s)
So someone in the theatre was, there were a couple, a young couple, um, maybe 4 or 5 seats to my left that were talking almost the entire movie.
(5m 45s) Kelly:
Hmm.
(5m 46s) Codey:
And I think, like, I had noticed it and it was bothering me for probably like a half an hour. And then I looked at my phone and I realised we were only like an hour and 20 minutes into a 3 hour plus movie. And so I told my friend that I was with.
(6m)
I was like, mm, I’m going to go say something.
(6m 5s)
So I, uh, conquered my fear of conflict.
(6m 9s)
Um, in that moment.
(6m 10s) Kelly:
Good for you.
(6m 11s)
That’s hard to do, you know, it really is.
(6m 12s) Codey:
Yeah.
(6m 13s)
and they were totally fine.
(6m 14s) Kelly:
But also you’re allowed to enjoy your movie experience, you know?
(6m 18s) Codey:
Yeah, and like, I didn’t do any, like, and no one else was like shushing them or anything, but it’s just like, I am unable to focus on what’s happening in front of me because you guys, they’re talking loud enough that I could almost hear their conversation and almost understand what they were talking about.
(6m 22s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(6m 32s) Codey:
And it was definitely not about the movie, which is wild that you like paid however much money to come into like a well, like a movie that has been well regarded or whatever, and you’re just going to yap the whole time.
(6m 45s)
So maybe…
(6m 46s) Kelly:
That upsets me so much.
(6m 47s) Codey:
Though maybe, like now that I’m thinking about it, they might have been, so I thought they were like an undergrad, they were undergrads or something, but I wonder if they were teenagers and they just wanted to spend time together, but their parents wouldn’t let them.
(6m 58s)
And so they were just like, what’s the longest movie that we can, but they weren’t like making out or anything.
(7m) Kelly:
Mm.
(7m 3s) Codey:
They were literally just talking and they were like cuddling, but it was, they were just talking. And, yeah.
(7m 9s)
So I went over and I was like, hey, like, could you please stop talking?
(7m 13s)
And they were like, 0 my gosh, we’re so sorry.
(7m 14s)
I’m like, it’s okay.
(7m 15s)
Thank you.
(7m 18s) Kelly:
Oh, that’s good that they had like a good reaction because, yeah, so they probably just did not realise whatsoever, like, which is…
(7m 20s) Codey:
Oh, they were very like.
(7m 25s)
Yeah.
(7m 25s) Kelly:
Sometimes people are just not aware, but like, um,
(7m 29s)
No, I’ve had that issue come up at concerts, uh, where like the person behind me will just like literally be talking and like I try to give them,
(7m 35s) Codey:
Yeah.
(7m 37s) Kelly:
You know, grace to see if they’ll stop.
(7m 41s) Codey:
Yeah.
(7m 41s) Kelly:
And like, what was it?
(7m 43s)
I was at like a modest mouse concert.
(7m 45s)
And this woman was speaking through 7 songs.
(7m 50s) Codey:
Oh my gosh.
(7m 50s) Kelly:
And like, I have a high pitched voice and she had a very high pitched voice also, and I know that that carries.
(7m 54s) Codey:
Yeah.
(7m 57s) Kelly:
Like, I know my voice carries in between like the basiness of like all of the music coming off the stage, you know?
(7m 57s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(8m 4s)
Yeah.
(8m 4s) Kelly:
She was talking about like absolutely nothing related to the concert, like at top volume.
(8m 11s)
So I finally turned around and I was like, I’m so sorry, like, you know, can you please like lower your voice?
(8m 12s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(8m 17s) Kelly:
Like, that’s all I can hear. And she like flipped out on me.
(8m 20s) Codey:
Oh my god.
(8m 20s) Kelly:
And I was like, okay, well, I paid to be here to listen to the music, not you, so you can move or shut up.
(8m 24s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(8m 26s) Kelly:
Like, I don’t care.
(8m 27s)
I am standing here.
(8m 28s) Codey:
Yeah.
(8m 28s) Kelly:
And she had an attitude with me.
(8m 30s)
Like to try to be tough and then she shut up.
(8m 32s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(8m 33s)
Okay.
(8m 33s) Kelly:
So I was like, well, you thought you were tough, but like, I don’t care.
(8m 38s) Codey:
Yeah, I don’t care.
(8m 38s) Kelly:
Yeah, I just want to enjoy the concert.
(8m 38s) Codey:
Just let me listen.
(8m 39s)
And like…
(8m 41s)
Yeah, and like 7 songs, some bands only have like a limited set list.
(8m 44s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(8m 45s) Codey:
It’s like you,
(8m 46s)
That’s basically like, that might be almost all of the songs at that point.
(8m 50s) Kelly:
Yeah, I I like knew that they had like the, I think it was like halfway through.
(8m 53s)
So I was like, because they were doing an album.
(8m 53s) Codey:
Okay.
(8m 54s)
Got it.
(8m 57s) Kelly:
But I was like, okay, this is Absolutely absurd.
(9m)
Like, this is too long now.
(9m) Codey:
Yeah.
(9m 1s) Kelly:
Like I, I let you talk for 7 songs.
(9m 4s)
Please shut up.
(9m 6s) Codey:
Please.
(9m 6s) Kelly:
Go stand by the bar if you want to talk, like.
(9m 7s) Codey:
Yeah.
(9m 10s)
Yeah, just somewhere else.
(9m 10s) Kelly:
But it’s, it’s hard, so good job, you know, getting up and going to talk to them because I definitely spend like that time also, amping myself up to.
(9m 18s) Codey:
Thank you.
(9m 22s)
Yeah, there was like, like I told my friend about it and he’s like, oh, I can’t really hear him.
(9m 26s)
And then at one point he leaned over.
(9m 27s)
He was like, okay, I can kind of hear him now.
(9m 29s)
like I get it.
(9m 29s)
But he was like on the other side of me.
(9m 31s)
And then, like, I was like, I’m going to go say something and he’s like, I’m proud of you, go for it.
(9m 37s)
I just knew that I was like seething.
(9m 37s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(9m 40s) Codey:
silently.
(9m 42s)
Um, but I wasn’t gonna, like, I’m not the kind of person to just be like, like, shush someone, like, like, I’m like, I’m gonna go over and just say, like, hey, heads up, like, you are just disturbing.
(9m 46s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(9m 53s)
Yeah, and like, honestly, like, I think that’s the best way because I would also want somebody to tell me, like, I’ve been in a position where I’m talking and not realising.
(10m) Codey:
Oh yeah.
(10m 1s) Kelly:
Like, you know, I think just go over and say, like, um, can you please be quiet?
(10m 5s)
Like, that’s, I don’t think I’ve ever once been like, no, I’m gonna talk louder, actually.
(10m 6s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(10m 10s)
No, actually.
(10m 12s)
Yeah, that’s nuts.
(10m 13s)
So that’s what we’ve been up to.
(10m 16s)
Um, okay, so moving on to uh, Cody’s Entomology Corner.
Codey’s Entomology Corner
(10m 21s) Codey:
So I always start this off with questions and Kelly has decided that we’re going to talk, she’s going to ask her questions like in the middle of like while the episode’s going like as things come up, which is great.
(10m 34s)
But in the Slack, there were a couple of really good questions.
(10m 38s)
So Stuart, for example, has a question and he said, what are the thoughts about collecting bugs?
(10m 43s)
Cody talked about nets and pins and stuff, which obviously means the bugs are going to be quite dead after.
(10m 48s)
Is the general opinion that, is the general opinion that that’s okay.
(10m 53s)
I’m fascinated by big Victorian entomology cases, but they’re not exactly in wide supply.
(10m 59s)
Are we good to make our own collections?
(11m 1s)
And he said, not that we have any super exciting bugs from a display point of view.
(11m 6s)
Um, where it’s from.
(11m 8s)
And another person on Slack Ryan said, so basically, is it cool to kill bugs and display their carcasses?
(11m 15s) Kelly:
Which I like both these questions because I also love the uh, Victorian display cases and like, also just like, all of the displays.
(11m 19s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(11m 23s) Kelly:
Um, I have looked into a few classes by me.
(11m 24s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(11m 27s) Kelly:
Um, but I’m sure you’re going to talk about it, but like, it’s all about, um, like ethical, Harvesting, right, of the bugs?
(11m 28s) Codey:
Mm.
(11m 36s)
Mm-hmm.
(11m 37s)
Correct.
(11m 38s) Kelly:
Yeah, okay.
(11m 39s)
Because that’s like with every animal.
(11m 40s)
Like I also like taxidermy.
(11m 42s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(11m 42s) Kelly:
And like that can be so questionable.
(11m 45s) Codey:
Yeah, it really depends on
(11m 47s)
Yeah, like, it depends on how you are harvesting them.
(11m 52s)
Like, if you are just out there, like, with a taxidermy, like if you’re out there with a gun just like killing all of the lions so that you can taxidermy them, not great.
(12m 2s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(12m 5s)
Yeah.
(12m 6s) Codey:
And we had a whole period of time where we did this a lot. And then people were like, wait a minute, this is not great because, like, organisms like the Tasmanian tiger, um, or Tasmanian wolf, like, I can’t remember exactly what it was called, but that was something that was hunted to extinction.
(12m 14s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(12m 25s) Codey:
There are other, there are many other animals that have been hunted to extinction because people want to have a big shiny display or like taxidermy or whatever.
(12m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(12m 33s) Codey:
So, um, yeah, it’s a really good question, especially, so this is something that we have, we talk about quite a lot in, um, entomology and it’s something that is still continuing to be discussed because in most research avenues, uh, if you are working with vertebrate animals and and some fish, you have to have like specific, you have to go through a specific and rigourous,
(13m 1s)
protocol to make sure that like, to prove before you even do your research, that you’re going to take care of these animals, that they’re going to be in good health, that if you do have to euthanize them as part of your project, you are going to do so humanely.
(13m 15s)
Like, you have to basically step by step, prove, um, to the researching body at whatever institution that you’re at, that like, you are going to take the appropriate steps.
(13m 26s)
Um, that does not exist for both.
(13m 29s)
It does not exist.
(13m 29s) Kelly:
Oh.
(13m 30s)
I was gonna say, that’s so reassuring for animals, I guess, because there’s definitely been so many cases of abuse in that regard.
(13m 33s) Codey:
Yeah.
(13m 37s)
Yeah.
(13m 37s)
Yeah.
(13m 37s) Kelly:
Um, but, uh, the bugs for bugs.
(13m 39s) Codey:
The, so yeah, invertebrates are not something that is uh, within that realm.
(13m 46s)
Um, I mean, part of that is like, we don’t have a good understanding of, like, their, you know, pain, like, how do we know when they’re in pain or how do we know?
(13m 56s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(13m 57s) Codey:
Like, we don’t have a very good understanding of that.
(13m 59s)
So it’s, it’s a little difficult to create standards, if we don’t have that information.
(14m 5s)
And it’s going to be highly dependent, you know, based on what you’re studying.
(14m 9s)
However, there are a lot of entomologists, myself included, that think that before you do anything, I do a lot of collecting.
(14m 17s)
And I make sure that whenever I do any collections, I seriously consider what am I going to do with my bugs?
(14m 24s)
Like what, after I collect all these data and then I can say things about, you know, where I caught things, how I caught things, et cetera, et cetera, what’s going to happen to all of these insects?
(14m 36s)
And not only the ones that I’m interested in studying, but also the ones that are caught as a consequence of it.
(14m 44s)
So like think of someone who’s fishing and they throw a net and they catch all of these fish that they’re that are part of their fishery and they’re going to sell these fish to their fishery, but they also catch lobsters and sharks.
(14m 46s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(14m 56s) Codey:
And like, you know, other things that are not what their target is.
(15m)
And that happens a lot in insect research as well.
(15m 4s)
So we put traps out like for bees, but these traps don’t just collect bees.
(15m 10s)
It’s not, you know, it’s not like these traps are sitting in the environment and if a beetle comes around, the trap is like, no, you are not chosen.
(15m 11s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(15m 18s) Codey:
So it’s something that not a lot of peop, not a lot of people have considered, but it’s becoming more common to start thinking about the ethical ramifications of our capture.
(15m 32s)
I think the general consensus is that it’s not, it doesn’t harm the environment.
(15m 35s)
As long as you don’t have those traps out, like in perpetuity, constantly running.
(15m 40s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(15m 40s) Codey:
So a lot of us will do just snapshots.
(15m 43s)
So I would put traps out for maybe a week or maybe like a couple days and I would only have so many traps in the in the area so that I could make the inferences that I want to make from that information.
(15m 57s)
But I won’t like just have it in every square inch of, like, I won’t have traps everywhere.
(16m 3s)
So, even if you are impacting the population at the area that your trap is, there’s still like so much more forest.
(16m 12s)
There’s so much more whatever your habitat is that you are not touching.
(16m 17s)
Um,
(16m 19s) Kelly:
It’s almost kind of even like mushroom collecting.
(16m 22s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(16m 22s) Kelly:
Where, you know, like people are only supposed to harvest, um, like a section of wild mushrooms that like the rest can continue growing and they’re not like just wiping out, uh, an entire area of those mushrooms, um,
(16m 27s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(16m 37s)
Mm-hmm.
(16m 38s) Kelly:
But I think that’s like a really good approach, like that’s, that seems like so, um, I can’t even think of that, like, oh, uh, conscious, I guess.
(16m 48s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(16m 48s)
Yeah.
(16m 50s)
Um, so there’s that aspect of it where you consider where you’re going to put your traps.
(16m 55s)
Also, depending on where you are.
(16m 56s)
So, If you’re in the Midwest, for example, there are some bumblebee species that are considered either endangered or threatened, including the rusty patch bumblebee.
(17m 7s)
And so you actually cannot deploy traps that are indiscriminate.
(17m 11s)
It is illegal to do so in for a great amount of that area.
(17m 18s)
And so you have to completely change your methodology of how you collect these insects.
(17m 23s)
So some people will have nets.
(17m 25s)
They might, you know, there are these vacuums, like think of like a handheld vacuum that you would like vacuum out your car with.
(17m 32s)
We can actually like literally just hack those apart and make something that you can catch bugs with.
(17m 38s)
And that’s some of my research was that.
(17m 41s)
I just stood over flowers that I planted in a few different arrangements and at different sites and then went to those sites and just caught all of the bugs that were on a certain flower species. And I was basically like, were the insects that visited these flowers different in these different environments.
(17m 58s)
Um, And so it’s just straight up a vacuum.
(18m 2s)
Um, But yeah, so there’s, and when we, when we euthanize them as well, we try and do so, um, humanely and ethically is like, we’re not just going to let them sit there and just slowly like die in a jar, right?
(18m 16s)
Like you, we either freeze them or we, um, put them in a container that has ethylacetate, um, and it, they just slowly kind of go to sleep.
(18m 27s)
Um, I usually just recommend the freezer or I will like bring a freezer with me to, um, to the field, like a, like dry ice or something like that.
(18m 37s)
I really like dry ice. As an example.
(18m 40s)
Um, so it’s, it’s, it’s kind of an, it depends question.
(18m 46s)
If you are and it depends on like why you are doing what you’re doing.
(18m 50s)
So if it’s for scientific research, you know, it’s generally considered okay.
(18m 54s)
But then even within that community, like what are you doing with your bycatch, what are you doing with the bugs once you’re done?
(18m 59s)
Like, are you just literally like, oh, I studied them all?
(19m 1s)
I’m going to toss them in the trash. Or, do you have plans to donate them to an institution in your area?
(19m 7s)
Um, like all of the bugs that I collected for my research here at Penn State are going into the Frost Entomological Museum at Penn State.
(19m 15s)
So they will be there in perpetuity and can be used further, um, future research.
(19m 22s)
Um, and then going to places like I’ve gone to a couple of things like Beetle school in Arizona and fly school in Costa Rica and there are people that go on those and just kind of are collecting everything that they can because they just and that’s, you know, fine as long as they’re not collecting every single thing.
(19m 40s)
you know?
(19m 41s)
You want to make sure that you’re collecting like a representative.
(19m 44s)
So there were some of these like bright green, shiny beetles, for example, that were there.
(19m 50s)
And a lot of us, we caught like one maybe two.
(19m 55s)
But other than that, we just left them, you know?
(19m 57s)
Because they’re endemic to that area.
(19m 58s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(20m 1s) Codey:
They’re not super, super common. Or they used to be, but they’re not that common anymore.
(20m 5s)
And so you just leave them, um, once you have, however many it is that you want.
(20m 12s)
So I took, there were 3 species, and I took one of each species, but then I took an extra one that I gave to, again, my museum.
(20m 19s)
Um, because my local museum did not have an example of that.
(20m 23s)
So if you’re going, if you go somewhere.
(20m 26s)
Like, if you’re going to go to Mexico where monarchs have their like mass overwintering grounds and you just start like hoovering up monarchs, like, clearly not a good thing.
(20m 38s)
But, um, if you, and choosing species that might be more sensitive or also clearly not a good thing.
(20m 39s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(20m 49s) Codey:
But there’s some really common butterfly species here that if you were to collect a couple of them, like maybe, I don’t know, like 15 of them to make a display, not super, something to be super, super concerned about, um, unless you are one of like 100s of people doing so.
(21m 9s) Kelly:
Yeah, that’s that, I mean, that’s always the issue.
(21m 11s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(21m 11s) Kelly:
Too, um.
(21m 13s)
So what do you think about, like, stuff like, uh, people who take, like, the spotter…
(21m 21s)
Oh my god, a spotted spotted lantern fly.
(21m 25s)
And make like jewellery from the wings.
(21m 29s)
Because, you know, they’re on like a kill on site list.
(21m 33s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(21m 33s)
So that is another example of, like, it depends.
(21m 38s)
So if you were in, if you were in their native range, that’d probably not be a great thing to do, right?
(21m 42s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(21m 43s)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(21m 44s) Codey:
But here where we are, especially in like the New York City area, and now where I am in Pennsylvania, they’re starting to make their way.
(21m 52s)
Um, Yeah, they, these are insects that are highly damaging to our environment.
(21m 52s) Kelly:
Oh, no.
(21m 58s) Codey:
Um, they basically, we, forever ago, we brought over this tree called Tree of Heaven.
(22m 3s)
that we thought was cool, and we planted it everywhere because people thought it was cool.
(22m 8s)
And then spot and lanternfly came over on a freight ship or something.
(22m 13s)
Um, it was actually in Berks County, Pennsylvania, 2014.
(22m 17s) Kelly:
Yeah, I thought it, you know, it’s funny because I, I, when you said, oh, they’re coming to Pennsylvania.
(22m 20s)
I was like, I’m pretty sure it started there, but then it’s not.
(22m 22s) Codey:
It did.
(22m 23s) Kelly:
But it’s not as big there.
(22m 24s) Codey:
No, they didn’t move.
(22m 26s)
So they were kind of stuck in like the Philly area for a while, and then they slowly started making their way west.
(22m 34s)
Um, and because we brought all of these trees, tree of heaven, and they’re all over the place, it kind of was like, here’s all your food.
(22m 42s)
Like we’ve already, we’ve already populated all your food, but all of the predators in this environment, all of the like birds that could eat them, things like that, they don’t, they have not evolved away to be able to consume spotted lanternfly and like compensate for the toxins.
(22m 44s) Kelly:
We made your environment for you.
(23m 2s) Codey:
So, spot and lantern fly when they eat tree of heaven, they sequester these, um, toxic chemicals that then act as like a protection because a bug will or a bird will try and eat it and will be like, ugh, that’s gross and spit it out and then that bird will never try and eat another one.
(23m 21s)
Um, and in, I think where they’re from in Korea, like that, there are predators, both vertebrate and invertebrate predator, like other bugs as well, who are just like, well, we’ve, we have something in our tummies that’s going to break that down.
(23m 36s)
And so we don’t care at all.
(23m 39s)
So, that’s an insect that we actually,
(23m 42s)
We don’t have adequate, like, predators in the environment to counter that.
(23m 48s)
So that’s why we have to step up as individuals to like take them down. And if you can then make art out of it, that’s great.
(23m 57s)
Um,
(23m 58s) Kelly:
Right?
(23m 58s)
That’s, I think it’s like very, like a very cool way to like, Both try to help the environment, even though it feels like we’re all trying to kill them as much as possible and it’s not really working too well.
(24m 9s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(24m 9s) Kelly:
Um.
(24m 11s)
But like, a great like recycle also.
(24m 14s) Codey:
Yeah, and that’s something, yeah.
(24m 14s) Kelly:
And like the wings are really pretty.
(24m 16s) Codey:
So that’s the frustrating part is they’re, they are very pretty.
(24m 20s)
Um, and people will be like, oh, these are so cute.
(24m 21s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(24m 23s) Codey:
And like even as in their larval stages, like in the, sorry, the nymphal stages, like they have, they, they’re black and white spotted and then they have red in them and they’re just like, they look, they look really interesting and very like exotic and pretty.
(24m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(24m 38s) Codey:
Um, it just sucks that they do so much damage, especially to uh, rape.
(24m 43s)
So, in Northwestern Pennsylvania, there’s a big grape, um, like culture, viticulture, I think.
(24m 51s) Kelly:
Oh, I didn’t realise.
(24m 52s)
Yeah, so yeah.
(24m 53s) Codey:
Yeah, so there’s, um, there’s a really like large amount of of people up there that have wineries that, um, produce a lot of the wine that is consumed either in the area or I don’t know if they send it out or whatever, but it’s a pretty big commodity here in Pennsylvania.
(25m 8s)
And, um, spotting lantern, I sure do love grape.
(25m 12s)
I sure do like really mess up great.
(25m 16s)
And so that is something that is not, um, that like we, we’re trying to stop the spread so they don’t make it there because once they’re there, you’re kind, we’re kind of screwed because it’s a huge, huge like food source for them and, and then the grape grape vines are going to really struggle.
(25m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(25m 34s) Codey:
So another thing that they’re doing, that some scientists are trying to do at the same time is like develop strains of grapes that are a little bit more resilient now that we know, like, Spotify, it’s only been here for like 12 years.
(25m 45s)
So it’s not like we’ve had years and years and years to try and do this, but they are still trying to figure out ways to mitigate it.
(25m 50s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(25m 54s) Codey:
But that type of capture, um, or just that type of killing, like just killing those insects.
(26m)
It’s encouraged.
(26m 2s)
Um, so it’s yet more evidence to the, it depends on what you’re killing.
(26m 2s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(26m 11s) Codey:
Um, but one of my big research interests personally is is the bycatch.
(26m 18s)
So say that, like, I, I, from throughout my research, I have put out these things called blue vein traps that are used to study bees.
(26m 26s)
Um, but pretty, like, from the 1st project, I was like, there’s so much more that’s caught that is not a B.
(26m 32s)
And we don’t have a very good understanding of what other insects are collected in those.
(26m 38s)
And no one has really taken the time to just sit there and identify that by catch.
(26m 43s)
And I did some of that for my dissertation.
(26m 46s)
Not only with um, with blue vein traps, but with some other common insect traps.
(26m 52s)
And I found rare flies.
(26m 55s)
I found range expansions of beetles and ants and a wasp.
(27m 2s)
Um, one of my friends studies, uh, some wasps and is like, that’s that’s probably new.
(27m 9s)
Um, some of the people, like there’s all, there’s these tiny, tiny wasps that people are like, I, we don’t know how to collect those and I caught a ton of them in these traps.
(27m 20s)
And so these are things that are collected and are probably being collected in how, like all of the research projects that are occurring, uh, monitoring insect populations across the world and people don’t even look at it.
(27m 33s)
They just, they, they call it.
(27m 35s)
so funny because we call it bug soup.
(27m 37s)
Because it’s literally like we put it in a jar, and it’s just a bunch of bugs in ethanol, and it just looks like bug soup, um, and people will set it there and they will, like, say, oh, someone will look at it eventually.
(27m 50s)
So I’m hoping in my research to provide a list of like here are the things, other things that are caught, like some of the, I’m not, this isn’t even extensive.
(28m 1s)
Like this is just my research and some of my colleagues who have given me their by catch.
(28m 4s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(28m 6s) Codey:
Like, these are the things that have been caught in like the eastern United States as by catch of bee projects or of, um, like beetle surveys. And so if you are an individual that studies these, these groups that are hard to catch, and you don’t know how to catch them, maybe go down the hall and ask the bee person at your institution for their by catch because they definitely have by catch.
(28m 31s)
Um, and that’s like an additional collaboration that can come from bugs that are just sitting there.
(28m 38s)
Um, so that’s like another way of trying to like make make it more ethical.
(28m 43s)
The collection of these insects, like try and improve the efficacy and all of the things that we can learn from these insects that we’ve already collected.
(28m 53s)
They’re already there, you know?
(28m 56s) Kelly:
Yeah, like, why wouldn’t you, like, share in that, in that?
(28m 58s) Codey:
Yeah.
(28m 58s)
And I think it’s just like people just don’t know what to say.
(29m 2s)
Like they, they’ll be like, I don’t know, there are some flies in there and some fly people are probably like, yeah, it’s probably all those really, really common like common things and who has the time, you know, to go through and check.
(29m 13s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(29m 13s) Codey:
But I am kind of blessed that I’m unemployed.
(29m 17s)
Um, I mean.
(29m 18s) Kelly:
The silver lining to unemployment.
(29m 21s) Codey:
I mean, I do, I have some small identification jobs, but like other, those aren’t going to take a ton of my time.
(29m 28s)
And so I’m gonna have other time, and in that time, I can go through some of this bycatch.
(29m 35s)
And because I’ve taken Beatle school and fly school and I was an instructor on the wasp by decorse, like I kind of know what groups are the, we don’t catch these very often groups, and I know the people that study those groups.
(29m 49s)
So I can be like, hey, I actually caught a ton of these, my narrids, which are called fairy fairy flies, fairy wasps.
(29m 57s)
There are these tiny, they are the tiniest, um, insect.
(30m 2s)
They are so small.
(30m 3s)
And we caught a bunch of them.
(30m 5s)
And, you know, I can talk to the people that study my marriage and be like, hey, heads up.
(30m 10s)
Like, I caught, you know, 300 of these things.
(30m 13s)
One of the things, one of the, so is, one of the things that I caught was, is called, uh, is a fly in the family carnidae.
(30m 19s)
And they’re bird flies, they’re like bird parasoid flies.
(30m 23s)
And I looked at the most recent publication about this family.
(30m 27s)
And it was someone at the American Museum of Natural History looking at all of the individuals that he could find in the museum and it was like 75 specimens.
(30m 37s)
I caught like 300.
(30m 40s)
In my research.
(30m 42s)
So it’s like, Like, and I mean, that’s research that I did in the canopy, so I put traps up in the canopy, but there are people putting traps in the canopy, like all, like that is something, something that is being done more and more.
(30m 53s)
So it’s like, you know, like these are, this is a family that like, they’re like, man, it’s so rare and like, we don’t, it’s like, no, actually, I think people just aren’t looking at the rest of their stuff.
(31m 4s)
Um, so yeah, I don’t know how, what all I mean, other than just like writing a checklist publication, that’s like, here’s all the other cool stuff we found.
(31m 13s)
Um, I still have to figure out exactly what I want to do with that information.
(31m 14s) Kelly:
Mm.
(31m 17s) Codey:
But I mean, I’m all for sharing it.
(31m 19s)
Like, I think I’m going to present at a conference in November about it, but.
(31m 22s) Kelly:
Oh, that’s so cool.
(31m 23s)
It’s like, it’s like support information or like Bug networking.
(31m 25s) Codey:
Yeah.
(31m 26s)
Well, It is, and it’s something that, you know, it’s not like sexy.
(31m 31s)
Like, it’s not like, oh, I discovered a new thing that, like, I found a new stick insect species or something like that.
(31m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(31m 38s) Codey:
Like, I mean, it’s possible, but you have to sift through like a lot of dead bugs and your girl loves sifting.
(31m 43s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(31m 45s) Codey:
So
(31m 46s) Kelly:
So it’s perfect.
(31m 47s)
I mean, it’s like, it’s like the people who put out like free programming and, you know, like stuff like that.
(31m 51s) Codey:
Yeah.
(31m 53s) Kelly:
It’s, it doesn’t usually get, um, applauded or like, it’s not like a thrilling, exciting job, like not sexy like you said.
(32m) Codey:
Yeah.
(32m) Kelly:
But like, it’s a vital to the community.
(32m 4s) Codey:
Yeah.
(32m 5s) Kelly:
So I think that’s really important.
(32m 5s) Codey:
And it.
(32m 8s) Kelly:
And like really nice for you to do also.
(32m 11s) Codey:
Yeah, I’m blessed that I’m in a situation where I can do that for a little bit. And I’m hoping that if I get like a publication or 2 out of it, someone will be like, hey, do you want to keep doing this, but like being paid for it through this museum or something, I’ll be like, yeah, I would love that actually.
(32m 22s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(32m 26s)
I mean, that would that would be so sick, yeah.
(32m 27s) Codey:
So, or like have people that do research.
(32m 31s)
Like, some of my friends have already said, like, hey, if we’re going to do this study, like, if I gave you the flies, how much money would you want to, like, identify the flies?
(32m 39s)
I’m like, well, I can only get them to family right now.
(32m 40s)
Like, I can’t get them like all the way down.
(32m 43s)
But it’s like, that’s another thing.
(32m 45s)
Like, I could just be a contractor of like, send me your stuff and I’ll identify it for you. And then hopefully, like, increase the, um, the, the footprint of these bugs that you’ve already caught.
(32m 56s)
So.
(32m 57s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(32m 57s) Codey:
Um, well, that was a very long-mended answer to uh, what is the thought of collecting bugs?
(33m 3s) Kelly:
Well, we covered both questions, right?
(33m 5s) Codey:
It’s true.
(33m 5s) Kelly:
So.
(33m 6s) Codey:
Um, so yeah, you can, uh, display their carcasses, just, um, another thing, the, I guess the final thing I’ll say is that if you do this, like if you make your own collection and you have your own, like, cases of bugs, make a plan either in your will or in something else for what is going to happen to them when you die.
(33m 25s)
So there have been so many entomologists that have passed away, unexpectedly, that we don’t know what their wishes were with their bugs.
(33m 34s)
Like, we don’t know, and their spouses are like, we don’t want these.
(33m 37s)
Like, please get.
(33m 38s)
I’ve been wanting these out of the house for 50 years.
(33m 40s)
Get out of the house.
(33m 42s)
And and a lot of people will either just sell it or they’ll just trash it and it’s just like, no, like some.
(33m 49s) Kelly:
That’s so sad.
(33m 50s) Codey:
There’s like some people’s life lifetime of just like going on trips and collecting bugs and it’s like, pick either pick like an one institution or pick an institution that you have spoken with and told them your wishes and you have like some form of agreement where it’s like, okay, the the insects that are from, um, Africa will go to this African institution and the insects that are from Asia will go to this Asian institution.
(33m 53s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(34m 17s) Codey:
So there’s like, you can do that where you can pick like where they go.
(34m 21s)
Um, but it is something that you kind of have to set up beforehand.
(34m 26s)
So.
(34m 28s) Kelly:
Yeah, we don’t have communication with ghosts fully down yet.
(34m 31s) Codey:
Unfortunately, there’s a not a Ouija board for, for that.
(34m 35s) Kelly:
For lawyers.
(34m 37s) Codey:
For entomologists and figuring out where we want our bugs.
(34m 41s)
Okay, so I will try and speed through these groups then.
(34m 46s)
So I’ve been, uh, over the last few episodes, I’ve been like going over the order level of insect, um, groups and and trying to just like blurb them a little bit.
(34m 56s)
So I’m going to keep doing that. So last time we talked about wing insects up to and including the group known as Poly Neoptera.
(35m 3s)
And this week we’re going to discuss perineoptera, which is the last, like, group, uh, last of the groups except for Hollow Metabola, which is like the big, a really big group and has overwhelmingly the most diversity of, um, insects.
(35m 18s)
And I’m going to talk a little bit about those, but then cover some of the hard hitters in the last episode.
(35m 23s)
Um, so Perineoptera, uh, I loved this on Wikipedia.
(35m 29s)
So I just like took it straight out.
(35m 31s)
Perineoptera are just all of the insects classified, uh, that are classified here in exhibit various reductions or simplifications from the primitive body plan found in polyneoptera.
(35m 42s)
So again, this is a junk drawer.
(35m 44s)
Like.
(35m 45s)
If you, if you don’t fall into this other category that is the shiny like clear category, you’re going to fall over here.
(35m 56s)
And that’s that’s kind of where we are at, I think, with, um, understanding where these things fit in.
(36m 4s)
So these include, um, 3 orders, uh, the lice, the thrips, and then the hemipterons or the true bugs, um, which, like, is a big contention about like what the word bug means.
(36m 21s)
I’ll talk about that when I get to that point.
(36m 23s)
So the order Sicodia has the Barclays, the book lice, and the parasitic lice.
(36m 29s)
So real close, the real quick, the bark lice are really important decomposers.
(36m 35s)
They break down things that other that like are pretty weird, like fungi and algae and lichen.
(36m 42s)
So these are things that other organisms aren’t are not going to be interested in because a lot of other organisms, um, like plant material or like other animal material, but, um, the bark lice are really good at those other weird things.
(36m 57s)
Book lice are called book lice because we 1st found them eating the bindings of old books.
(37m 3s)
So they are a little different, um, physically, but basically they really like that kind of like old glue stuff.
(37m 13s)
Um, but they also have some decomposing ability in in the wild because they don’t just exist with books.
(37m 19s)
They just really like books.
(37m 21s)
And then the big group is the parasitic lice.
(37m 25s)
Kelly, do you see that word?
(37m 28s) Kelly:
Yes, I.
(37m 28s) Codey:
Do you want to try and say that word?
(37m 32s) Kelly:
Um, is it Theraptera?
(37m 36s) Codey:
So close on the end.
(37m 38s)
So this, I hate this every time, I have to say this.
(37m 43s) Kelly:
Can I just say it’s a PHTH, which is crazy.
(37m 46s) Codey:
It’s P. Correct.
(37m 48s)
It starts with PHTH, which you basically just make those 2 sounds.
(37m 53s)
So it’s faptura, like, or sorry, faptura, thaptura.
(37m 55s) Kelly:
Okay.
(37m 59s) Codey:
Oh my gosh.
(38m)
So.
(38m) Kelly:
Theraptura?
(38m 1s) Codey:
Yeah.
(38m 2s) Kelly:
Okay.
(38m 2s) Codey:
But you have to make both of those sounds.
(38m 4s)
is so stupid, but I think, um, the PHTH IR mean is like, uh, is just like the old English word or the Greek maybe word for louse.
(38m 13s)
So this literally just is like lice, uh, wingless lice is what this group is, um, and they aren’t always wingless, but we normally find them when they’re wingless.
(38m 15s) Kelly:
Okay.
(38m 24s) Codey:
Um, like individuals might, these are, they’re going to be the parasitic lice.
(38m 28s)
And they might have wings to move between hosts, like, say, not between hosts necessarily, to find a host.
(38m 37s)
So if one louse is on like one body and then it needs to move to another body, like, in the next generation might have might have wings and might move, but then they will drop their wings and then they won’t move anymore.
(38m 52s)
So there’s a couple groups that have that kind of life history where they might give birth, not give birth, they might like have young that are winged, but then those wings don’t last.
(39m 5s)
Like they will throw them off once they find a good host.
(39m 8s)
Um, Parasitic lice are obligate, parasites, so they rely on other organisms to live in consuming other organisms, usually like the blood of other organisms.
(39m 20s)
So there’s the chewing lice, um, which they will live um, in your hair and feather, the hair and the feathers of whatever the host is, and they’ll feed on the skin and the debris.
(39m 31s)
Whereas the sucking lice will actually pierce your skin and will feed on your blood or other secretions.
(39m 38s)
Um, Yeah.
(39m 41s)
So there are like, I can’t remember.
(39m 43s)
I think head lice are a chewing louse.
(39m 47s) Kelly:
Okay, that’s what I, I was gonna say, that is chewing lace, right?
(39m 47s) Codey:
So like, I don’t,
(39m 49s)
Yeah, I don’t think that they like suck our blood, but they will consume our like dead hair, whatever, and what, like that kind of stuff, but not fun.
(39m 51s) Kelly:
Okay.
(39m 57s)
Mm-hmm.
(40m 1s) Codey:
And, I mean, even just like talking about this, like, I’m sure folks know about headlights and you probably feel like you have lice on your head right now and like you want to scratch your head.
(40m 9s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(40m 10s) Codey:
And unfortunately, there is an entire psychiatric disorder.
(40m 14s)
Um, that kind of comes from this and it’s called delusory parasitosis or delusional parasitosis.
(40m 21s)
So there are, if you take that feeling of like, ah, I have a louse on my head and you just amplify it and make it so that the person truly believes that they are infested with parasites, it becomes a psychiatric disorder.
(40m 37s)
Um, and there are a lot of people, um, it’s not as uncommon as you’d think.
(40m 44s)
Uh, I actually have had a woman email me before saying that she had these bugs that were living on her skin and she hadn’t, she hadn’t been able to meet her grandchild that had been born last year because she didn’t want to infect him with whatever bug she had.
(41m 1s)
And she’s gone to like, um, dermatologists and some other like doctors and they all have told her that she needs psychiatric help and she’s like, so she was basically coming to an entomologist and like, please tell me that like, I’m right and that there are bugs on like crawling on my skin.
(41m 16s) Kelly:
Oh no.
(41m 17s) Codey:
And it’s just like, oh, like,
(41m 21s) Kelly:
Ugh.
(41m 21s) Codey:
And I was able to shift it to someone else.
(41m 26s)
Um, but like it, that is something that genuinely happens and people that have that have to have psychiatric help to overcome that belief that they are invested.
(41m 27s) Kelly:
That’s good.
(41m 38s) Codey:
Um, and I think, yeah, I just wanted to mention that because I think it’s, I think it’s interesting and it can be incredibly sad.
(41m 44s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(41m 45s) Codey:
Um, but something that happens with uh, that kind of, that kind of thing.
(41m 52s) Kelly:
There was there was like this case about a woman who, um, it wasn’t related to bugs itself, but like she constantly felt like her head was itchy.
(41m 59s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(41m 59s) Kelly:
And it was, it was like literally just a neurological issue of like there were no,
(42m 4s) Codey:
Yeah.
(42m 7s) Kelly:
There weren’t, there was nothing happening or occurring and like it was just driving her crazy.
(42m 11s) Codey:
Yeah.
(42m 11s) Kelly:
And like that, ugh.
(42m 14s)
Because, like, I definitely had moments where I’ve woken up or I felt like I’m covered in bugs and then I have to, like, Check myself and be like, no, there’s not a 1000 ticks on you or like fleas on you or something.
(42m 18s) Codey:
Yeah.
(42m 23s)
Yeah, exactly.
(42m 26s) Kelly:
Um.
(42m 27s) Codey:
But and a lot of the time it’s it’s individuals that don’t have a lot of understanding of insects or arthropods and so like for like ticks, um, and stuff, like they don’t really understand that they’re not microscopic.
(42m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(42m 40s) Codey:
You will see them.
(42m 40s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(42m 41s)
Exactly, which is like why I think the check is so nice.
(42m 41s) Codey:
Um,
(42m 45s) Kelly:
It’s like, oh, okay.
(42m 45s) Codey:
Yeah.
(42m 46s) Kelly:
There is nothing there.
(42m 47s)
The only time it’s not nice is like the middle of the night when I have to like get up and turn the lights on.
(42m 50s) Codey:
Right.
(42m 52s)
Right.
(42m 53s)
Um, yeah, that’s something that’s really interesting.
(42m 56s)
Um, and not something everyone knows about.
(43m)
So, uh, the next order is Thysinotra.
(43m 4s)
Um, these are the thrips.
(43m 7s)
So this word is similar to fish or this group is similar to fish.
(43m 12s)
So like, when you are talking about a fish, singular, you say fish, and then when you’re talking about fish plural, you still say fish.
(43m 20s)
So this is the same.
(43m 21s) Kelly:
Okay.
(43m 22s) Codey:
Thrips is the singular and the plural.
(43m 26s)
It’s not like it’s thrips and thrip.
(43m 29s)
Like, it’s thrips, period.
(43m 30s)
So really interesting.
(43m 33s)
Um, I’m not entirely sure why we decided to do that uh, in the English language, but whatever.
(43m 40s)
So these are mostly pests on plants.
(43m 43s)
I love in the Wikipedia article, it said they were cigar shaped, and they really are.
(43m 48s)
They’re just like two, they’re a their tube.
(43m 50s)
Um, and they have these really, they have these really like fringe wings, like their wings just are like, look little fringe hairy things, but, um, they’re mostly past on plants, but they can also be really good pollinators.
(43m 51s) Kelly:
They are, yeah.
(44m 4s) Codey:
People actually think that they might have been one of the 1st pollinator pollinating insects because they go in.
(44m 11s)
they’re fairly small.
(44m 13s)
They will go into the, uh, into the flowers, like inner internal morphology.
(44m 20s)
I don’t know, the inside of a flower.
(44m 23s)
And they might have been like consuming either the nectar or some other plant part, and then they would go to another flower, and that, you know, is indirect, that’s a possibility for pollination, and some fossil thrips that have been found have pollen on them, which is nuts.
(44m 40s)
Um, The only other thing I like about thrips or that I’ll mention about thrips is that they are one of the few examples of asymmetry within insects.
(44m 50s)
So the thing about insects, and I guess, like, I guess we’re the same as well.
(44m 55s)
They’re bilaterally symmetrical, right?
(44m 57s)
So if you cut us down, like if we’re standing and you cut us into one half and another half, like up down, there are, it’s like mirror images of them of each other.
(45m 4s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(45m 7s) Codey:
But thrips have asymmetrical mandibles.
(45m 12s)
So one of their mandibles is like reduced a lot.
(45m 16s)
Another one.
(45m 16s) Kelly:
Oh, like kind of like crabs?
(45m 17s) Codey:
Yeah.
(45m 18s)
Um, so it’s really reduced and then the other mandible is still like big.
(45m 24s)
And it’s, it is just so interesting because it’s one of the few examples that we can find of, of something breaking that like bilateral symmetry.
(45m 33s)
Um,
(45m 34s) Kelly:
Does it, um, does it help him like, latch onto the plant or is it like?
(45m 40s) Codey:
Yeah, I think it has to do with their feeding.
(45m 41s)
Um, they’re feeding style.
(45m 42s) Kelly:
Okay.
(45m 44s) Codey:
Um, they also, they also, do make this damage on plants that is, uh, is called cat facing damage. Because they say, like, people have said that it looks the damage on the plant looks like a cat’s face.
(46m)
But I looked at a ton of photos and I didn’t, I’m like, I can’t, I don’t know what people were seeing.
(46m 6s) Kelly:
I was about to say, I’ve never heard that, but I did have an issue with them on a plant and it did not look like a cat’s face.
(46m 13s) Codey:
Yeah, it’s yeah, they.
(46m 14s) Kelly:
I don’t know about that one.
(46m 16s) Codey:
I don’t, but I, that’s just one of those things like, when I’ve, I have competed in some trivia, like bug trivia things, and like that’s like, they’ll be like, oh, what kind of instruct makes catfacing damage, or like, what kind of damage does thrips do?
(46m 23s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(46m 30s) Codey:
And, um,
(46m 32s)
It’s just like, I don’t, like, it says this, but I don’t know what kind of cats people were looking at when they named it that, but it was not good.
(46m 43s)
Uh, okay, the last perineopteran group, uh, order is hemiptera.
(46m 48s)
Uh, this means half winged, so Hemi, and then Ptera.
(46m 51s)
And this includes the true bugs, and then things like cicadas, leaf hoppers, aphids are in here.
(46m 57s)
Um, just that kind of like a lot of plant pests that you’d think of, um, are in this group.
(47m 3s)
The defining feature of them is that they have a beak, um, or what’s called a rostrum, and it’s that all of their mouth parts instead of having mandibles or, um, like a tongue or whatever.
(47m 16s)
They just have like a pokey bit and they just jam that thing into the plant.
(47m 21s)
Um, and have like, The, they jam that thing into a plant and then they have enzymes that come out of their salivary glands and just like liquify the plant and then they just suck it up.
(47m 24s) Kelly:
Is it like, uh, sorry, go on.
(47m 34s) Codey:
Um, unless they are, like, they also might feed on either the xylom or the floam of the plant and so they’ll find, they’ll like find those, um, things, but they basically have a stabby bit, but they won’t stab people because unless you really mess with them because that’s not.
(47m 48s)
It’s not a defence thing.
(47m 50s)
It’s not a weapon.
(47m 51s)
It’s literally just their mouth.
(47m 53s) Kelly:
So is it like um, the little mouth that comes out in alien?
(47m 56s)
Like inside of them, inside their mouth or is it?
(47m 58s) Codey:
Um, I mean, yeah, as long, if it was a straw, basically.
(48m 4s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, like not like fully protruding, you know, I’m sure as far as that either, but similar concept.
(48m 5s) Codey:
Yeah.
(48m 11s)
Yeah, they just have, it’s just like a little lance that comes out of their, out of their face at some point in their face.
(48m 17s)
And it’s, it’s really funny because a lot of these, there’s 4 what are called suborders within hemiptera, and 3 of them end in Rinca, which is means snout.
(48m 27s)
And it’s basically just saying the 1st part of the word is basically just saying where their snout comes from, comes out of their body.
(48m 39s)
Um, I didn’t know that 100% until I was researching for this episode.
(48m 46s)
I was like, what is the etymology of this word?
(48m 47s)
And then I was like, oh, interesting.
(48m 50s)
Um, so like the 1st group, the 1st um, or sub-order is UCanarinka, or Auchanarinka.
(48m 58s)
There’s a lot of ways that you can, people should look up how to spell these things because the pronunciation is always is wild.
(49m 5s)
And it literally just means throat snout.
(49m 7s)
And it’s basically because the mouth part comes out like down by basically like a their chin area.
(49m 15s)
Um, like on their face.
(49m 18s)
Their phase is held downwards and then it comes, their their ross room comes out from like their chin, throat, neck area.
(49m 26s)
Um, and this includes, this group includes things like cicadas, leaf hoppers and spittle bugs.
(49m 32s)
Um, And a lot of these things, uh, communicate through sounds or vibrations.
(49m 38s)
Of course, we know cicadas are incredibly freaking loud.
(49m 41s)
Um, I think people, scientists have found, like studied it and said that it’s the equivalent of if we were standing next to a cannonball when a cannonball goes off.
(49m 51s)
Um, that’s how loud their sounds are, but something about their temp, their sound producing organ and the way that they quote unquote here.
(50m 1s)
Basically, like, there’s like a mechanism in there that like stops their ears while they’re screaming and then it kind of like goes, like opens again when they’re silent.
(50m 11s)
And it’s it’s just super wild.
(50m 13s) Kelly:
Oh, that’s cool.
(50m 15s) Codey:
Um, But yeah, cicadas are, or the song, song of summer for many people.
(50m 21s)
You’re hearing a lot of cicadas right now.
(50m 24s) Kelly:
Um, so it’s funny because I actually don’t get them a lot by me.
(50m 28s) Codey:
Mm.
(50m 28s) Kelly:
Um.
(50m 29s)
We get a few.
(50m 30s)
We had like a big brood a few years ago.
(50m 33s) Codey:
Yeah.
(50m 33s) Kelly:
But like growing up.
(50m 35s)
Um, where I lived growing up, all you heard all summer long.
(50m 38s)
Was the sound of cicadas.
(50m 39s) Codey:
Yeah.
(50m 40s) Kelly:
Like that’s that’s the sound of summer.
(50m 42s) Codey:
Yeah, they’re they’re here as well.
(50m 44s)
Um, I guess that’s one thing I could mention about cicada specifically, is they have 2 different, um, there’s the annual cicadas, so those are ones that come out every single year.
(50m 55s)
So they have their young, they’re young, burrow underground, and then come up the next year and sing the song of their people and runs repeat.
(51m 4s)
But there are also these, um, some species that are known as periodical cicados.
(51m 10s)
And these have either a 13 or a 17 year cycle where every 13 years or 17 years they will just come up and and do at like all all of them at the same time.
(51m 13s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(51m 24s) Codey:
basically, like of that brood.
(51m 26s)
But there are multiple broods.
(51m 28s)
So, like one year there might be one, one brood, and we’ve tracked them all.
(51m 32s)
So it’s like brood 10, brewed 12, brewed, whatever.
(51m 34s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(51m 36s) Codey:
Um, And we, it’s just so interesting that they have this life history strategy of basically all come out and be loud and do everything and there’s so many of us that predators will eat their fill.
(51m 50s)
And both.
(51m 51s) Kelly:
And we’ll still have plenty of us left, yeah.
(51m 52s) Codey:
And there’s still so many of us left.
(51m 55s)
And the reason that they have either 13 or 17 years is to overcome, like, like a predator cannot evolve to, like, learn that, you know?
(52m 4s)
So there are some things that will have like one year off and then they’ll come back the next year and they’re a predator might like co-evolve with them and have and like learn the same thing.
(52m 5s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(52m 15s) Codey:
So then that predator will be really abundant the year that they’re there and then not abundant and then look, they’ll come back.
(52m 20s)
But with 13 and 17 years, like they, they cannot do that.
(52m 24s)
Like your predators will not come back.
(52m 24s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(52m 27s) Codey:
Um, And so it’s just the, the,
(52m 29s) Kelly:
Yeah, I think the 17 year one was the one that just happened a few years.
(52m 34s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(52m 34s)
And it’s why, I mean, there, there’s just so many, like, it, there everywhere.
(52m 38s) Kelly:
Oh yeah, it’s crazy.
(52m 41s) Codey:
Like, you can’t, you can step on them.
(52m 43s) Kelly:
And they’re they’re blind, right?
(52m 46s)
They like can’t see well, right? As far as I.
(52m 47s) Codey:
They they cannot see well.
(52m 49s)
They also come out, um, the adult cicadas, I believe all do not have mouth parts.
(52m 55s)
So they don’t eat.
(52m 56s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(52m 57s) Codey:
They just, they’re they’re underground.
(52m 59s)
They eat in their um, larval state. Uh, or their nympho state and they’ll just eat and consume and and wait and bide their time.
(53m 8s) Kelly:
Yeah, no, because when I was a kid, you’d like be riding your bike at night.
(53m 11s) Codey:
Oh, and they’re hitting you.
(53m 12s) Kelly:
Oh my god, they’d be hitting you and like you’re trying to dodge them, but like they’re, they can’t see and like they’re just flying around.
(53m 13s) Codey:
Yeah, they don’t.
(53m 18s)
Yeah.
(53m 19s) Kelly:
Uh, it was.
(53m 21s)
That was always the least fun part.
(53m 22s)
Because they’re so big.
(53m 23s) Codey:
Yeah.
(53m 23s)
Yeah, they’re incredibly clumsy flyers, so they are not able to like dodge very well.
(53m 27s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(53m 30s) Codey:
Um, But it, this life history strategy, it has been really important for some indigenous tribes.
(53m 38s)
So there are some tribes that talk about, like, when here in North America, when Europeans and other colonisers came to overtake the land, some of the people were, like, pushed out off of like their area of where they had food growing or like they weren’t allowed to hunt some of their, like, the big game that they usually hunt, like, the colonists would specifically, like, stop them from doing all of that.
(54m 5s)
And then, like one of the tribes had that situation going on and they were like almost dying, but then it was a cicada year and like one of the periodical cicadas like came out and they basically were able to survive because and they called it like, they said like it came from like a deity, gave it, gave them the cicadas.
(54m 23s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(54m 24s) Codey:
Um, because it was, it basically, it completely saved their lives.
(54m 28s)
Um, yeah.
(54m 29s) Kelly:
That’s so cool.
(54m 30s) Codey:
So really cool that they have that, uh, the periodical ones are just wild.
(54m 35s)
And you can actually track because we have really good understanding of where they are geographically, but also when they’re going to come out.
(54m 41s)
So if you are in North America,
(54m 42s)
You can look, and I mean, I guess other places as well probably have periodical skaters.
(54m 47s)
But you should be able, there should be some resource that you could go to
(54m 50s)
that’s like, here is my geographical location and this is what year it is.
(54m 54s)
Like, when’s the next time we’re going to have a giant cicada boom.
(54m 58s)
Um,
(54m 59s) Kelly:
Yeah, because because I remember like the news was like reporting on the 17 year one well in advance before. It actually came out.
(55m 4s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(55m 4s)
Yes.
(55m 6s)
Yeah, it’s basically like heads up.
(55m 9s)
is happening this year.
(55m 9s) Kelly:
Yeah, don’t freak out.
(55m 9s) Codey:
Um, and there’s a couple areas where, like, you will get a 13 and a 17 at the same time.
(55m 17s)
It’s just, it doesn’t happen often, but it’s like, you know, Gert.
(55m 20s) Kelly:
Oh man.
(55m 23s)
It’s like a subway series, like we’re just gonna, we’re gonna fight each other for all of the resources, but also like maybe because there’s so many more muscles survive.
(55m 28s) Codey:
Yeah.
(55m 32s)
Yeah, I don’t.
(55m 34s)
Well, so I don’t know if they have.
(55m 36s)
I don’t know how much of competition for resources they have underground.
(55m 39s)
So I think they mostly consume like roots and stuff.
(55m 40s) Kelly:
Oh, right, because yeah, they’re not going to eat.
(55m 42s)
Yeah.
(55m 44s) Codey:
But yeah, absolutely wild.
(55m 47s)
Okay, I’m going to move on.
(55m 48s)
Um, the next suborder is coleorinca.
(55m 52s)
Um, some people say seal ringa.
(55m 53s)
I don’t always remember.
(55m 55s)
Um, so this, I’m just going to breeze over these because I don’t know about these.
(55m 59s)
They’re called moss bugs.
(56m)
All of them are flightless and they live in really damp moss habitats and they’re all associated with the distribution of a specific tree in Australia, New Zealand.
(56m 10s)
New Caledonia and South America.
(56m 12s)
Um, and it basically all of those countries used to be continents used to be part of the supercontinent Gondwana.
(56m 19s)
Um, and the moss bugs like evolved when those were all connected.
(56m 24s)
And then when they all split apart.
(56m 25s)
There’s just moss bugs in those areas.
(56m 27s)
But that’s it.
(56m 28s)
like just those areas.
(56m 29s)
So I have not seen one of these.
(56m 31s)
I don’t expect to see one ever.
(56m 34s)
I mean, I would love.
(56m 34s) Kelly:
That’s that’s so interesting though.
(56m 36s) Codey:
Honestly, I would love to go to New Zealand.
(56m 38s)
New Zealand, in Australia, I have such interesting bugs.
(56m 41s) Kelly:
Oh my god.
(56m 42s) Codey:
Like, every time I’m at a bug class.
(56m 45s)
There’s like a whole, if we, if we’re covering like 160 families that are endemic to North America.
(56m 50s)
There will be like another 30 to 50 families that it’s like, oh, and we’ll just mention that these exist, but that you’re not going to see them unless you’re in New Zealand or Arizona.
(56m 59s)
Or sorry, Australia, not Arizona.
(57m 2s) Kelly:
Oh my god, their shells are so cool looking.
(57m 5s) Codey:
Yes, they have very intricate, um, like,
(57m 10s) Kelly:
It reminds me of like rice patties or like kind of like the Yellowstone Pools almost.
(57m 15s) Codey:
Yeah, they there’s this really interesting shape.
(57m 18s)
I, maybe I’ll mention when we get to Heteroptera, um, some other, another family that is kind of cool like that.
(57m 26s)
Um, that I like.
(57m 27s)
But I will jump to Sternarinka.
(57m 30s)
So these are, this means chest snout, so sternum, and then rink a snout.
(57m 35s)
And this is because their mouth parts literally look like they’re coming out of the middle of their chest.
(57m 39s)
So there are some some groups that I’m like, oh, is this a louse?
(57m 44s)
Is this like a barc lice or is this a solid?
(57m 47s)
And I will just look and if their mouth parts are coming out, it like literally in between their the 1st pair of their legs.
(57m 55s)
It’s just like there’s like a little, a little like boob coming out and it’s just like, oh, okay, it’s a silly.
(58m 1s)
Because otherwise some of these things look very, very similar to some of the Yukon Rankins.
(58m 6s)
Um, or sorry, some of the uh, the lice, the cicodians.
(58m 11s)
So, really interesting.
(58m 12s)
This also includes aphids, white flies, silids, and scale insects, which are,
(58m 18s) Kelly:
Those last 2 are my nemesis.
(58m 20s) Codey:
Yes, so, um, silids, scaling sex, and aphids, uh, are all Wi-Fi is to a lesser extent, but these are all things that are incredibly hard-hitting economic damage.
(58m 27s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(58m 31s) Codey:
Like, entire crops.
(58m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(58m 34s) Codey:
Like there is currently a bunch of aphids and silids.
(58m 40s)
And I think scale insects down in Florida that are devastating the citrus crop.
(58m 44s)
And it’s pretty much like, say, like enjoy limes and lemons and oranges while you can because like they are, these things are just going gangbusters down there.
(58m 44s) Kelly:
Oh no.
(58m 56s) Codey:
Um, and I know, it sucks.
(58m 58s) Kelly:
But I love my citrus fruits.
(59m)
I mean, we don’t even have good peaches this year because of, um, how hard jersey got hit, but that’s not bug related.
(59m 1s) Codey:
Oh, I mean.
(59m 6s) Kelly:
That’s different.
(59m 7s) Codey:
Yeah, but it’s just they’re not some some not fun ones here for sure.
(59m 13s) Kelly:
And like there’s, there’s some of them are so hard to get rid of, like, I can’t even imagine it on a commercial level.
(59m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(59m 20s)
Well, scaly sex basically are just, they just look like, they’re called that because they just can flatten themselves up against the bark of a tree, and then they look like the bark of the tree.
(59m 27s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(59m 30s) Codey:
So it’s like, they just camouflage themselves and just live their own little lives with this like hardened back shield thing.
(59m 31s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(59m 37s) Codey:
Um, I’ve only really ever seen them in their like younger states like that I’m able to really identify in their younger states when they don’t have that giant like back piece that is protecting them.
(59m 50s)
So they’re,
(59m 51s) Kelly:
Yeah, I feel like it’s, it’s only more noticeable if there’s like a large collection of them in a spot.
(59m 56s) Codey:
Yeah, because they’ll they’ll congregate, yeah, in one spot.
(59m 57s) Kelly:
Yeah, or like, um.
(1h 1s)
They do leave certain markings on leaves, but like, once you get to that point, it’s like, okay, now I have to decontaminate an entire plant and hope that I don’t miss a single one.
(1h 4s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 11s)
Yes, because if you miss a single one, like, it’s something’s gonna happen, like, it’s probably the female that’s able to just, like, boom again.
(1h 16s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 19s) Codey:
Um, and I will say these, this group, uh, I mean, any of these in these insects, but specifically starting ring ins.
(1h 27s)
It’s not only that they do, they consume so much of a plant.
(1h 32s)
They also have a lot of like viruses that are co-evolved with them and will live inside of them, like in their salivary glands that they will then transmit between plants.
(1h 42s)
Um, and the plant, and the, it might be that the disease is what’s killing your plant, not necessarily the actual, like herbivary.
(1h 49s) Kelly:
I didn’t know that part, that’s.
(1h 50s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 51s)
Yeah.
(1h 51s) Kelly:
That’s so cool.
(1h 52s)
I mean, awful, but like, In a really interesting way.
(1h 56s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 56s)
So a lot of, um, there’s a good amount, like if, it sucks because I’m, my, my research is in like conservation and biodiversity, but if I switched to pest work, I could get a job so easy because there’s so much research being done on pest insects and how to mitigate them, how to, how to like eradicate a specific pest without just destroying all of the other insects in your area.
(1h 1m 5s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 1m 20s) Codey:
Um, it’s just a huge field and all of the ag, uh, there’s a lot of money in it as well because there’s a lot of incentive from agricultural partners, but also like the government to, um, learn how and figure out how to stop the.
(1h 1m 35s)
I stop these things from spreading and stop whatever damage or diseases they bring.
(1h 1m 39s)
So.
(1h 1m 40s) Kelly:
Oh, actually, I wanted to ask this.
(1h 1m 40s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 1m 41s) Kelly:
Is this why?
(1h 1m 42s)
Because I saw in the news, like, uh, 2 days ago or something that like, somebody, Google or somebody wants to release, uh, like a ton of bugs to, I think, mitigate a certain problem, but I think they’re an invasive species, species.
(1h 1m 59s) Codey:
Yeah, so I don’t know exactly what you’re talking about, but there’s a couple different things that people will do so that we do.
(1h 2m 5s) Kelly:
Because I know they do like the mosquitoes, um, they release the male mosquitoes that are sterile to reduce.
(1h 2m 6s) Codey:
So.
(1h 2m 7s)
Yes.
(1h 2m 9s)
Yeah, so that’s called that’s the sterile insect technique.
(1h 2m 12s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 2m 14s) Codey:
So that’s when you, yeah, release a bunch of males that are sterile and they’re basically just shooting blanks and they don’t know.
(1h 2m 19s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 2m 19s) Codey:
And then, like, a lot of insects, once they copulate, they might put in what’s called a copulatory plug.
(1h 2m 26s)
So like a male might mate with a female and then that’s it.
(1h 2m 29s)
Like she can’t mate again because there’s like something physically barring another mating attempt.
(1h 2m 35s)
Um, and then it’s great if he was sterile.
(1h 2m 38s)
Uh, so for some, so that’s one thing, but there’s also some places, we try not to do this as much, but some places will release predators of something or, um, like parasitoids.
(1h 2m 39s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 2m 53s)
I feel like that’s what it was, but now I can’t find it.
(1h 2m 55s)
So I don’t know if I was…
(1h 2m 56s) Codey:
Yeah, so it was probably the biological control side of it.
(1h 2m 59s)
So that’s usually it’s gonna, it’s often a parasitoid wasp.
(1h 2m 59s) Kelly:
Okay.
(1h 3m 3s) Codey:
So, um, it’s usually a parasoid wasp species or or whatever that might be local but might not be, but they’re usually so well adapted and like to their specific host that people will release that wasp.
(1h 3m 18s)
Like they’ll breed up a ton of those wasps and then release them and then the females will lay their egg in the, um, other insect and then their egg will grow and like will basically just decimate whatever that insect is.
(1h 3m 20s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 3m 31s) Codey:
Um, and then once the like, this is done a lot with aphids.
(1h 3m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 3m 37s) Codey:
And then once the aphids are gone, that wasp just kind of also dies out because, yeah.
(1h 3m 42s) Kelly:
Disappears with it.
(1h 3m 43s)
That’s actually real.
(1h 3m 44s)
I didn’t know that that was, um, a process that we had.
(1h 3m 47s)
That one sounds really cool also, because we’ve had good success with the mosquito sterilisation in the past, right?
(1h 3m 48s) Codey:
Well, so there’s.
(1h 3m 52s)
Yeah, the issue with biological control is you can never be 100% sure that that insect is not like whatever you release as the control agent is not going to be able to adapt to a different organism.
(1h 3m 59s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 4m 9s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 4m 10s) Codey:
So it could be that like you, I mean, it’s one of those things like if it’s a, uh, a wasp that parasitises aphids and then it adapts and suddenly compariasitize another aphid, like we’re not going to cry because it’s an aphid.
(1h 4m 23s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(1h 4m 24s) Codey:
But it.
(1h 4m 24s) Kelly:
That’s that’s the best case scenario.
(1h 4m 26s) Codey:
But there are some things that like are more generalist.
(1h 4m 30s)
Um, so we usually don’t choose those for biological control, but it’s, you’re never sure, like if there’s always going to be exceptions.
(1h 4m 34s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 4m 38s)
Yeah.
(1h 4m 39s) Codey:
So it could be that you release something and it only does this one AFID, but then in the environment, there’s also this B, this does not happen, but head, just like as an example.
(1h 4m 48s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 4m 48s) Codey:
There’s also this bee that somehow it can parasitise as well.
(1h 4m 52s)
And then now you have released something that is going to devastate, like something that you actually, that is beneficial that you care about, that was unintended consequence.
(1h 5m 2s)
Um,
(1h 5m 3s)
And this is, there’s some really bad stories of this with like vertebrates.
(1h 5m 9s)
Um,
(1h 5m 10s) Kelly:
I was going to say, um, in the time where I grew up, they released frogs.
(1h 5m 14s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 5m 14s) Kelly:
To get rid of the mosquitoes or control the mosquitoes and then there were a abundance of frogs that were just eating everything and then I think they caused more raccoons to come and also then people released cats.
(1h 5m 18s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 5m 23s)
Mhm.
(1h 5m 31s) Kelly:
Or something to control the fraud.
(1h 5m 32s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 5m 34s) Kelly:
Like, it was just, Clearly chaos going down the line and nobody was catching on that like releasing these animals was not helping the process.
(1h 5m 42s) Codey:
Yeah, um, another example is the cane toad.
(1h 5m 46s)
And I’m trying to remember exactly what that all was about.
(1h 5m 47s) Kelly:
Yes.
(1h 5m 51s) Codey:
Um, it was introduced.
(1h 5m 53s) Kelly:
I remember that mess, but I can’t remember.
(1h 5m 57s) Codey:
Yeah, so the cane toad has been introduced to many regions of the world for the biological control of agricultural past.
(1h 6m 2s)
So yeah, similar.
(1h 6m 3s)
Um, it was released to get rid of a pest.
(1h 6m 8s)
And then, um,
(1h 6m 12s)
It just kind of went gangbusters.
(1h 6m 15s)
Uh, so it’s, so this is, as a result, 102 toads were collected from Hawaii and brought to Australia.
(1h 6m 22s)
So it started with 102.
(1h 6m 23s) Kelly:
Oh my god.
(1h 6m 25s) Codey:
Um, it is much more than that now.
(1h 6m 28s)
Um, and they have been, uh, so that I’m seeing that they have been, the cane toad has been linked to the decrease of uh, an organism called the quals, northern quals.
(1h 6m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 6m 39s) Codey:
It’s like a it’s a marsupial, I’m assuming.
(1h 6m 42s)
Um, yeah.
(1h 6m 43s)
So it’s like one of those things like, oh, this is going to be a great idea.
(1h 6m 46s)
And then it’s like, oh, heck, that was not actually a great idea.
(1h 6m 49s)
These unintended consequences.
(1h 6m 51s)
So it’s possible that something was released as biological control that you saw because that is happening fairly regularly as well.
(1h 6m 58s)
Um, the last order before we, I’d go over some of the holo metabolist organisms is heteroptera.
(1h 7m 5s)
So these are the true true bugs.
(1h 7m 7s)
So legitimately true bugs.
(1h 7m 8s)
So when when we 1st when entomologists 1st started, I think this is what we were what we meant when we said bug.
(1h 7m 16s)
is these things.
(1h 7m 18s)
So these are now what’s called the true bugs.
(1h 7m 21s)
But of course, people just refer to all insects as bugs.
(1h 7m 24s)
And I feel like every young entomologist has a stage in their life where they’re really, really grumpy about people calling, referring to insects or even spiders or whatever, like as bugs.
(1h 7m 36s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 7m 36s) Codey:
Because you’re like, no, Bugs is actually just Tanoraptura.
(1h 7m 40s)
Um, I have I have gotten past that point in my life because I don’t think that it really matters.
(1h 7m 47s)
It doesn’t.
(1h 7m 48s) Kelly:
I think that’s fair.
(1h 7m 49s)
I think I think that’s also like a thing that like just most people go through in life where like the thing that they like really enjoy.
(1h 7m 56s)
You know, it gets talked about by somebody who is using terms that they don’t fully understand or.
(1h 7m 57s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 8m 2s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 8m 3s) Kelly:
And then you get frustrated.
(1h 8m 4s)
You know, I think I think that’s something most people can, but like for you, especially it has to be worse.
(1h 8m 5s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 8m 10s)
Yeah, there’s so much misinformation.
(1h 8m 10s) Kelly:
Um.
(1h 8m 12s)
But I do have a question because you said these are the junk draw bugs, right?
(1h 8m 14s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 8m 18s)
Oh, so the, it’s the perineoptera is the drunk drawer of the bugs.
(1h 8m 21s) Kelly:
Oh, okay, because, because I was gonna ask, like, that’s kind of messed up that they’re considered true bugs, but then thrown in the drug draw.
(1h 8m 22s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 8m 28s)
No, no, no.
(1h 8m 29s) Kelly:
Okay.
(1h 8m 30s) Codey:
These are, these are, these are pretty distinctly like their own little, little things, so.
(1h 8m 35s) Kelly:
That’s what I was kind of confused because like they seem like bugs that can be classified.
(1h 8m 40s)
Yeah, okay.
(1h 8m 40s) Codey:
Yes, yes, 100%.
(1h 8m 42s)
Um, so some common families, um, some of the common names of families that you would probably uh, recognise are things like stink bugs, bag bugs, pirate bugs, assassin bugs, giant water bugs, um, these are all within heteroptera.
(1h 8m 58s)
Um, I wanted to shout out 2 things.
(1h 9m 2s)
So 1st of all, there’s the family Tingiday or Tingiday, which are the lace bugs.
(1h 9m 7s)
And I wanted to mention these because you were appreciating how the Colia Rinkin’s look.
(1h 9m 14s) Kelly:
Yes, I, I literally, so, because it’s funny because I was looking up, For this also, because not to jump ahead, but like there is a lace bug in silk song. But I don’t think there, that’s who lace is based off of, um, Which is funny because it’s like, uh, there’s a few misnomers, I think, in the game.
(1h 9m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 9m 25s)
Yes.
(1h 9m 30s)
No.
(1h 9m 37s) Kelly:
In that regard.
(1h 9m 37s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 9m 39s) Kelly:
But yeah, lace bugs are so pretty. And I definitely see the connection that you made with the early…
(1h 9m 42s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 9m 46s)
Yeah, so lace bugs are just bugs that instead of having like a shield that is like a, like a back end that is very like obviously like their, their back or whatever, like think of like a, uh, stink bug, like you, there’s that almost shield like, um, And it’s all one colour and you can’t see through it.
(1h 10m 1s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 10m 5s) Codey:
Lace bugs, it’s like someone has just intricately like made that.
(1h 10m 10s)
Um, their, uh, what are known as hemulytra.
(1h 10m 15s)
These, um, they’re not true wings, but like the things that are on their back that kind of like mimic wings or are the, um, the, 0 my gosh, an adapted wing or like a different type of wing, they are, they look like lace.
(1h 10m 31s)
Like they look like they’re a lace doily.
(1h 10m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 10m 34s)
Literally, it looks like that or like stained glass on some of them, depending on like what fills in in between.
(1h 10m 38s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 10m 40s)
Yeah.
(1h 10m 41s)
So I, I think these, these things are so cool.
(1h 10m 46s)
Um, they are unfortunately also possibly a pest species.
(1h 10m 52s)
But they’re so pretty.
(1h 10m 54s) Kelly:
Isn’t there, um, I mean, obviously there’s pests, but I guess this would be more about like invasive species.
(1h 10m 59s)
Like, I think we’ve been, there’s been like conversations about reconsidering what we consider invasive, invasive species or how we consider them now because of like global trade and everything.
(1h 11m 7s) Codey:
Yes, yeah.
(1h 11m 12s)
Yeah, so there are some organisms that, like, are going to be a pest on a plant, for example, but they won’t do enough damage to be, like, fully considered a pest, like, they’re, they’re, they are, they eat the plant.
(1h 11m 20s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 11m 25s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 11m 27s) Codey:
They are an herbivore on that plant, but they haven’t quite attained pest status.
(1h 11m 32s)
And I think that we’re trying to do something similar with the word invasive.
(1h 11m 33s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 11m 36s) Codey:
Um, because, I mean, thinking about it, a lot of these insects, if given, like, if we weren’t here to facilitate their movements, they would move, like, they’re gonna move around on the environment, if they’re, they’ll either adapt or, like, the climate will shift a little bit, and so they will move to a different geographic location.
(1h 11m 46s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 11m 46s)
Yeah.
(1h 11m 47s)
Exactly.
(1h 11m 55s) Codey:
So, talking about them as invasive is assuming that they belong one place and they are outside of that place.
(1h 12m 2s)
Um, And so that is something that like we’re trying to think about how to talk about.
(1h 12m 3s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 12m 7s) Codey:
And I think my, where I fall is, I would consider something invasive if we facilitated its movement into another area and it is now, like a pest in that area or like a damage, like damaging in that area.
(1h 12m 20s) Kelly:
Okay, okay, like I agree.
(1h 12m 23s)
I think like, like the lantern flies kind of go with this because like they wouldn’t be thriving as much if we hadn’t brought the trees over 1st and created that like perfect environment for them.
(1h 12m 25s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 12m 30s)
Yes.
(1h 12m 34s)
Yeah.
(1h 12m 34s) Kelly:
So, yeah, okay.
(1h 12m 36s)
That that’s that’s interesting.
(1h 12m 36s) Codey:
And like if they had, if they had made their way over here at some point, like they, they would not have come on a ship, right?
(1h 12m 44s)
Like they would have had to go like through the proper channels.
(1h 12m 44s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 12m 48s) Codey:
No, they would have like come over like through a land bridge or something geographically in such a way that like, they would have predators that come with them, like, and things that follow them that are also a part of that make it so that when by the time they get here, they can be a fully functioning, like, part of the ecosystem and maybe not damaging.
(1h 12m 53s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 12m 59s)
Yeah.
(1h 13m 9s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 13m 11s) Codey:
Like they aren’t 100% pests where they’re, where they are naturally because they have so many like natural predators and stuff.
(1h 13m 16s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 13m 17s) Codey:
Um, But by taking something and putting it into an area where there is like no protection from it.
(1h 13m 24s)
And they’re just going wild.
(1h 13m 27s)
Um, I think personally that can be considered invasive.
(1h 13m 32s)
So.
(1h 13m 33s) Kelly:
No, I think that’s like a really cool way to look at it too, and like make sense because like we intervene in such a way that like we skipped the natural order of everything.
(1h 13m 36s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 13m 43s)
Yeah.
(1h 13m 44s)
yep.
(1h 13m 45s)
There is also, I will say there is a um, sociological standpoint of it as well.
(1h 13m 52s)
So a lot of these insects, um, that are considered invasive that are damaging here in North America come from Asia.
(1h 13m 52s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 14m 1s) Codey:
And there are people that have equated this to the people that come here as well, that like,
(1h 14m 2s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 14m 8s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 14m 9s)
Yeah, I’ve I’ve definitely seen some like, racism going on within that.
(1h 14m 13s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 14m 14s) Kelly:
Um, unfortunately.
(1h 14m 16s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 14m 16s)
And so that, I think that’s another thing that we need to be be cognisant of when we were speaking about invasive species and about, um, like that kind of thing.
(1h 14m 21s) Kelly:
Mhm.
(1h 14m 27s) Codey:
Like, I think because Asia is so the geography, the climate, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, Asia is so vastly different and has just such completely different biodiversity, but is not too different climatically, it allows things, like things that are completely different that, like, our local areas can’t handle, like, can come over, um, and can then thrive in this area, but that is very, very different from, like,
(1h 14m 39s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 14m 43s)
Yes.
(1h 14m 58s) Codey:
a human being coming here and like fitting into the, like, into the society and whatever, you know, it’s very, very different.
(1h 15m 4s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(1h 15m 6s) Codey:
And so that’s something that we also try and make sure that we, that we, um, are cognisant of when we speak of, you know, species from other, other continents, other areas that we’re not saying that things that come from that area are 100% invasive pests, blah, blah, blah, but like,
(1h 15m 17s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 15m 24s)
Yeah, like they’re bad because they’re from Asia.
(1h 15m 25s) Codey:
Yeah, no, no, it’s not that.
(1h 15m 26s) Kelly:
Like, no, that’s.
(1h 15m 29s) Codey:
There’s actually, um, there are some tree species that we that we have that are having some issues, whether it’s with a fungus or with a, uh, insect or whatever, but we are splicing the DNA of our native tree species with, like, an Asian equivalent that is protected against these things, against these diseases, against these pests.
(1h 15m 33s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 15m 53s) Codey:
Um, and creating like a hybrid that is still majority like this hour species, but it provides that protection.
(1h 15m 54s) Kelly:
Oh, that’s cool.
(1h 16m)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 16m 1s) Codey:
And I think we’re trying to save like, I think, the chestnut that way and maybe like something like that.
(1h 16m 5s) Kelly:
Oh, okay, yeah.
(1h 16m 7s) Codey:
Um, yeah.
(1h 16m 8s) Kelly:
That would be awesome.
(1h 16m 9s)
Like that that sounds so cool.
(1h 16m 9s) Codey:
So it’s, Yes.
(1h 16m 12s)
Um, the last thing I wanted to mention with Heteroptera is, uh, so the majority of things in this order are herbivorous, but there are some weirdos.
(1h 16m 22s)
So like assassin bugs, for example, or ambush bugs.
(1h 16m 26s)
Like these things eat other bugs.
(1h 16m 27s)
That’s what they do.
(1h 16m 28s)
Um, but when I was in Hawaii, I learned about this bug called the YQ bug, I think, is how you say this.
(1h 16m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 16m 36s) Codey:
Um, and I guess there’s a couple species of it, but this the species, specific species that I learned about.
(1h 16m 41s)
is one that lives at the summit of Monicaea on the big island.
(1h 16m 45s)
So this is a true bug that like, like think of these little tiny things.
(1h 16m 50s)
Like think of an aphid.
(1h 16m 51s)
It’s, I mean, it’s not, it’s not an aphid.
(1h 16m 51s) Kelly:
Mhm. And they can survive like, that temperature?
(1h 16m 53s) Codey:
Correct.
(1h 16m 54s)
They have an anti-freeze protein in their chemolymph.
(1h 16m 59s)
So they are able to not freeze to death and they live at the top.
(1h 17m 4s)
And so they are from a fam, they are from the family Ligeity, which are known as the seed bugs that, for the most part, eat consume seeds.
(1h 17m 12s)
However, this specific species.
(1h 17m 16s)
has adapted, is adapted to consume the dead bugs that get blown up to the summit of Monica.
(1h 17m 24s) Kelly:
That’s so cool.
(1h 17m 24s) Codey:
So this is like a bug that you’d think that you’d see it, like as an entomologist, you’d see it, and you’d be like, oh, I wonder what kind of seeds this thing is eating.
(1h 17m 32s)
And it’s literally just like, if there’s like a butterfly that was caught by the wind and blew up to the summit of Mauna Kea and clearly cannot survive up there because it’s so, it’s like snowy and icy and whatever.
(1h 17m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 17m 44s) Codey:
Um, and it dies.
(1h 17m 45s)
There’s this bug then is like, oh, yum, dinner.
(1h 17m 49s)
It’s like, what is going on?
(1h 17m 52s)
It’s just another example of like, you can say these, like these,
(1h 17m 56s)
Oh, these are the seed bugs.
(1h 17m 57s)
This is what they do 100% and evolution’s like, nah.
(1h 17m 58s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 17m 59s)
No, no, no, no.
(1h 18m 1s) Codey:
You can’t put us in a box.
(1h 18m 5s) Kelly:
Uh, I wonder, um, I think that has an interesting tie in, actually.
(1h 18m 9s) Codey:
Yeah, true, true.
(1h 18m 11s)
So keep keep that.
(1h 18m 12s) Kelly:
Right? With like the way, yeah.
(1h 18m 14s) Codey:
Keep that in mind, the getting blown to a transported.
(1h 18m 18s) Kelly:
To a cold, high location?
(1h 18m 19s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 18m 20s)
We’ll put a pin in that.
(1h 18m 22s)
Okay, um, last thing, hollow metabola.
(1h 18m 27s)
So these, this hollow metabola means complete change, so entire like change.
(1h 18m 31s)
Everything up until this point has had life stages that include moulting from one form, um, that looks like the next form.
(1h 18m 41s)
So think of, you know, like Aphids are like that.
(1h 18m 44s)
Um, Sputalantern Pfies are less like that.
(1h 18m 47s)
But like some of their nymphal forms like look very, very similar until they get to the adult stage.
(1h 18m 52s)
Um, grasshoppers, like a, uh, a young grasshopper that’s not sexually mature, looks very, very similar to an adult grasshopper, and they all consume the same thing.
(1h 19m 1s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 19m 2s) Codey:
Like they they share their the same food source.
(1h 19m 5s)
But holo metabolism is when an organism, the insect has an egg, a larva, a pupa, a full pupil stage and then an adult stage.
(1h 19m 14s)
These are all distinct from each other.
(1h 19m 16s)
And when they are within the larval stage and the adult stage, those are the 2 most, for the most part, feeding, like that’s when they’re eating, they are eating completely different things.
(1h 19m 24s)
So bees, for example, um, They, the adults mostly eat the nectar.
(1h 19m 33s)
They’ll eat some protein, the females will eat some protein to, sorry, some pollen to get the protein to make their eggs, but then what they leave as a provision for their young is going to be mostly pollen, but it’ll have some nectar.
(1h 19m 48s)
Another example is butterflies.
(1h 19m 51s)
So a butterfly adult that’s flying around is consuming nectar, but the young consume the plant material, they’ll like consume like the leaves of the plant.
(1h 20m 1s)
So this is great.
(1h 20m 2s)
Like, if you can have a ton of babies and they don’t compete with you for food.
(1h 20m 7s)
This is a great, like, life history to have.
(1h 20m 10s) Kelly:
Mm.
(1h 20m 10s) Codey:
Um, and it’s no wonder then that this group, the hollow metabolist insects are the ones that have the the majority, like almost all of the insect diversity is is here.
(1h 20m 21s)
Um, so I’m going to save Diptera, which are the flies, Coleoptera, the Beatles, and the Moths, and Hymenoptera, the Bees, and and Wasps, for the lot for next episode.
(1h 20m 32s)
Um, because I really want to go into like specific families for them.
(1h 20m 35s)
But I’m going to cover like the other, I think it’s like 7 really briefly here.
(1h 20m 36s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 20m 39s)
Okay.
(1h 20m 39s) Codey:
Um, and I’m going to say that these are also not listed based on evolutionary relatedness.
(1h 20m 45s)
So the 1st one is not related, like as more closely related to the 2nd one than it is, the 3rd one, et cetera, et cetera.
(1h 20m 52s)
I’m just kind of going based on vibes.
(1h 20m 53s)
Um, Okay, briefly, uh, Raffitioptera are the snake flies, Raffitioptera means needle wing.
(1h 21m)
Um, they are just really thin.
(1h 21m 3s)
They have super long necks.
(1h 21m 4s)
I think that’s why they’re called snake flies.
(1h 21m 6s)
They look like a snake that has that then has like a body and like legs and stuff.
(1h 21m 11s)
Um, and they’re really interesting and they’re not super, super common, but I did catch one in Arizona.
(1h 21m 13s) Kelly:
Yeah, they look so cool.
(1h 21m 19s) Codey:
So I have one in my the my one representative of that order in my collection.
(1h 21m 23s) Kelly:
Oh nice.
(1h 21m 23s) Codey:
Super cool.
(1h 21m 24s)
Um, The next order is Megaloptera.
(1h 21m 28s)
So these are the Alderflies and allies is what they say.
(1h 21m 32s)
It’s basically the alder flies and other things that fit into this group, but it’s like hard to like put a name to it.
(1h 21m 37s)
Megaloptera just means large wing.
(1h 21m 39s)
Mega large wing.
(1h 21m 41s)
Um, they have these large clumsy wings, they’re really bad flyers, so they are not able to control their flight very well, but they can get around.
(1h 21m 50s)
Um, They often have these giant mandibles.
(1h 21m 56s)
So Dobson flies are within this group.
(1h 21m 58s)
I don’t know if you know of Dobson flies.
(1h 21m 59s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 22m) Codey:
Um, many of them, they will have these giant mandibles that look really, really scary and you’re like, 0 my gosh, that thing is going to attack the heck out of me.
(1h 22m 7s)
The only reason that they have these is to impress the females.
(1h 22m 10s)
They’ll also, they might like, fight the other males or something, but it’s not something that they’re really going to mess with you a lot.
(1h 22m 19s)
Um, so it looks scary, but you’re fine.
(1h 22m 23s)
And the larvae of Dobson flies are known as Helgermites.
(1h 22m 27s)
Which I just love that word that it’s like, there’s this thing from Howell, basically.
(1h 22m 33s)
Um, and they’re like very large.
(1h 22m 35s)
They’re aquatic, and they’re very large, and people will often like catch these and then use them as bait.
(1h 22m 42s) Kelly:
I was going to say, I use them as fly fishing baby.
(1h 22m 45s) Codey:
Yep, yep.
(1h 22m 46s)
There are also sometimes called toe biters depending on where you’re at.
(1h 22m 51s)
Because I think it hurts.
(1h 22m 53s)
Have you ever been bitten by one?
(1h 22m 56s) Kelly:
I was not, luckily.
(1h 22m 56s) Codey:
Okay.
(1h 22m 57s)
But yeah, because the young, definitely like their mandibles are, they have a purpose.
(1h 23m 3s)
And they mean business.
(1h 23m 4s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, they do.
(1h 23m 6s)
They look like they have a purpose.
(1h 23m 9s) Codey:
Yeah, for sure.
(1h 23m 10s)
Um, the next order is neuroptera, so these are the lace wings, and this just means nerve wing.
(1h 23m 16s)
Um, and they’re so-called because they just have a ton of veins in their wing.
(1h 23m 20s)
And I mentioned in a previous episode that the benefit of having veins in your wing is increased structure, um, because the veins will solidify, uh, and harden and then provide more of a structure for, uh, the memberness, like part of the wing to, uh, help produce flight, um, and drag and stuff.
(1h 23m 42s)
And so these just have a ton of veins.
(1h 23m 46s)
It’s like oops, all veins.
(1h 23m 47s)
Um, these, uh, neuropterans, lace wings are super important, uh, as predators of things like aphids, um, not only as adults, but also as heat they’re young.
(1h 23m 57s)
This order also includes ant lions.
(1h 24m)
So these are things that bury themselves in the soil and they have like a pit that go, they like construct a pit.
(1h 24m 9s)
So an insect might be like walking past and then it kind of falls into this like pit and then the ant lion will like come up and just like snack, like grab it and then pull it under and eat it.
(1h 24m 18s)
I think that has.
(1h 24m 19s) Kelly:
Are they in Africa or?
(1h 24m 22s) Codey:
They’re here.
(1h 24m 22s) Kelly:
Oh, are they?
(1h 24m 23s) Codey:
I think, yeah.
(1h 24m 24s) Kelly:
Okay.
(1h 24m 25s) Codey:
I was trying really hard.
(1h 24m 27s)
I think I found I found an adult, but I didn’t find any larvae.
(1h 24m 31s)
I just wanted a photo of the pit.
(1h 24m 32s)
Um, when I was in Arizona, but yeah, they’re in, they’re in North America as well.
(1h 24m 33s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 24m 33s)
That’s so cool.
(1h 24m 37s) Codey:
I’m not, I’m trying to, maybe, like, they’re called ant lines because they make a pit.
(1h 24m 41s)
Like, like people used to make lion have lion pits and like you’d fight in them and stuff.
(1h 24m 43s) Kelly:
Maybe.
(1h 24m 46s)
Yeah.
(1h 24m 46s) Codey:
Um, So I will say, uh, a fun story about neuropterans.
(1h 24m 53s)
This is a great example of even the biggest things can still be a discovery.
(1h 24m 57s)
So my advisor, um, was in Arizona and, or sorry, Arkansas. And he was in a Walmart parking lot and he saw this lace wing on the side of a building on the side of the Walmart and he was like, oh, cool.
(1h 25m 12s)
And he just caught it in his hand and they’re not, they don’t bite or anything, but he just like caught it.
(1h 25m 16s)
And he went in and like bought milk and whatever else he was there for.
(1h 25m 21s)
And then he came back, he came back.
(1h 25m 23s)
And that insect, like he just had it down as like a, a brown lace wing, like a the family that includes brown lace wings for a really long time.
(1h 25m 33s)
And then while he was teaching like in my class on Zoom, um, during the pandemic, while he was teaching us about it, he pulled out this hit the giant light swing to show us and he was showing it as an example of a Brownlee swing to look at like the veins.
(1h 25m 52s)
And we all had like pictures of what the vein, the vein structure of a brown light swing looks like and we’re like, mmm, mmm, like, this doesn’t, and he was also like, wait, this is, hmm.
(1h 26m 4s)
And he kind of like pondered a little bit because his job his whole job is like identifying bugs.
(1h 26m 9s)
And it turns out that this was not uh, that family.
(1h 26m 15s)
It was this other family that hadn’t been seen for like a long time and hadn’t been seen that far, like in that geographic area, like ever.
(1h 26m 27s)
And so during the, like there was this huge article, and then he was, um, and I was, I was interviewed for the article.
(1h 26m 27s) Kelly:
Oh, that’s so cool.
(1h 26m 36s) Codey:
So like I am mentioned in this article.
(1h 26m 38s)
But then also, like, this was picked up by the New York Times and like all of the big, like BBC, like all of these things.
(1h 26m 48s)
And some of my friends were sending me this being like, oh, wow, did you see this article?
(1h 26m 52s)
And I’m like, You didn’t read it.
(1h 26m 55s)
Did you?
(1h 26m 59s)
You would know that I saw that article at that time.
(1h 27m 5s)
Um, let me see.
(1h 27m 7s)
Oh, yeah, I said we were watching what Dr. Scobaro saw under his microscope and he’s talking about the features and then just kind of stops.
(1h 27m 13s)
We all realised together that the insect was not what it was labelled and was in fact a super rare giant lace wing.
(1h 27m 18s)
I still remember the feeling.
(1h 27m 19s)
It was so gratifying to know that the excitement doesn’t dim. The wonder isn’t lost.
(1h 27m 23s)
Here we were making a true discovery in the middle of an online lab course.
(1h 27m 27s)
That’s my claim to fame.
(1h 27m 29s)
I was quoted there.
(1h 27m 32s) Kelly:
That’s so cool.
(1h 27m 33s)
I haven’t, I haven’t, um, opened, so I can read it later after.
(1h 27m 36s) Codey:
Yeah, it is just super fun.
(1h 27m 38s)
Um, And I, like, it was, it was one of those things like the, the pandemic.
(1h 27m 42s)
So normally that class is taught in the museum, and in the museum, they have all of these, like, examples.
(1h 27m 48s)
So he would never have looked at that, like, because he was trying to look at his personal collection to find examples of all of these families.
(1h 27m 54s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 27m 55s) Codey:
So he would never have looked at this if it was not the pandemic and we didn’t have to like teach he didn’t have to teach over Zoom.
(1h 28m 4s)
Um, so it was really interesting, but, Again, like this thing is huge.
(1h 28m 6s) Kelly:
That is so cool.
(1h 28m 9s) Codey:
It’s not a small thing.
(1h 28m 9s)
Like, it’s pretty big.
(1h 28m 11s) Kelly:
That’s so crazy too, though, because like, I mean, the lace wings I get are like little green ones.
(1h 28m 16s) Codey:
Yeah, the, the, yeah, that the green lace things are fairly.
(1h 28m 19s)
I mean, they’re not tiny, but they’re not, they’re,
(1h 28m 20s) Kelly:
No, but they’re not like huge looking.
(1h 28m 22s) Codey:
They’re not giant.
(1h 28m 23s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 28m 23s) Codey:
Like this thing.
(1h 28m 25s)
This thing, like, I think when he was holding it in his hand, like it was like pretty much almost like in his entire, like, hand or whatever.
(1h 28m 31s)
I also loved,
(1h 28m 31s) Kelly:
It looks like a giant dragonfly.
(1h 28m 32s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 28m 33s) Kelly:
Like, you know, like, that’s what it reminds me of.
(1h 28m 33s) Codey:
Yeah, and I also loved, um, I looked at some of the Reddit posts at the time because people like in the article is like, yeah, he grabbed the, he just grabbed it with his hand and kept shopping and like people are like, he what?
(1h 28m 49s) Kelly:
Could you imagine, though, like you’re walking around Walmart and you just see this man carrying like a giant bug in one hand while he’s like picking up his milk?
(1h 28m 57s) Codey:
I can because I’ve been that person.
(1h 29m)
Like, it’s just so funny that, like, I’m like, 0 yeah, of course he did.
(1h 29m 6s)
Like, he was there.
(1h 29m 6s)
He didn’t have anything with him to like put it in and he still needed milk.
(1h 29m 8s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 29m 10s) Codey:
And so, like, of course, like, he did that, but just looking at the comments and people being like, excuse me?
(1h 29m 21s)
We’re weird, aren’t we?
(1h 29m 23s)
Um, yeah.
(1h 29m 24s) Kelly:
Only a little bit.
(1h 29m 25s)
In a good way.
(1h 29m 26s) Codey:
The next order are called the stripsypterons.
(1h 29m 30s)
These are the twisted wing parasites.
(1h 29m 33s)
Um, and their strip sipter means turning around wing.
(1h 29m 37s)
Um, and they’re called this because their wings are this really weird shape and they kind of fold them up in weird ways.
(1h 29m 45s)
Um, they still have, uh, for, so instead of 4 wings and hind wings, like having the 2 so 2 full pairs of wings.
(1h 29m 54s)
They have, the front pair of wings has been adapted, like evolutionarily changed to be these like, like it helps them orient.
(1h 29m 55s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 30m 5s) Codey:
I don’t I don’t really know how to describe it, but like as they’re flying.
(1h 30m 9s)
So they only fly with their back wings.
(1h 30m 11s)
And then this attachment that they have helps them orient while they’re in flight.
(1h 30m 15s)
And uh, the flies also do this.
(1h 30m 19s)
So, uh, little bonus for about flies, flies, uh, diptera, 2 wings, because they have their 4 wings only, and then they have these halt tears, which are these appendages that help them like navigate, uh, and orient during flight and like stay in the right plane of existence.
(1h 30m 37s)
Um, but stripsipterans are the opposite.
(1h 30m 40s)
So they have their their forewings are the ones that are like evolved to be this like orienteering thing.
(1h 30m 45s)
But that’s not the only place.
(1h 30m 47s)
That’s not all.
(1h 30m 48s)
They’re cool for other reasons as well.
(1h 30m 50s)
And the fact that they are endoparasit- parasites of other insects, where it’s not that they lay eggs that parasitise the other insects.
(1h 30m 59s)
They themselves do.
(1h 31m)
So a female will hatch and she’ll have wings and she’ll fly and find a host.
(1h 31m 6s)
And this host could be a bee, a wasp, a cockroach.
(1h 31m 10s)
Um, I think some plant hoppers have some, and the female will, go onto the abdomen of the,
(1h 31m 17s)
I think it’s usually the abdomen.
(1h 31m 18s)
That’s where I’ve seen it with wasps that I’ve seen.
(1h 31m 20s)
And she’ll burrow in um, in between the, the segments of the abdomen.
(1h 31m 27s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 31m 27s) Codey:
And she burrows in and she drops her wings and she attaches and she will then be there for the rest of her life and she’ll like consume the haemolymph of the insect.
(1h 31m 40s)
Um, and produce eggs.
(1h 31m 43s)
Uh, she will, well, before she produces eggs.
(1h 31m 46s)
She, um, attaches, she starts consuming haemolymph, and she emits a pheromone that attracts the males, and the males come and mate with her while she is still embedded in the other inside.
(1h 31m 58s)
So, like, imagine you have a tick on you.
(1h 32m 2s)
in a place like you can’t get to it.
(1h 32m 4s)
Like, you can’t get rid of it.
(1h 32m 5s)
And then another tick comes like another tick comes along and like mates with it.
(1h 32m 6s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 32m 9s) Codey:
It’s like, come on.
(1h 32m 10s)
Leave me alone.
(1h 32m 14s) Kelly:
It could just single break.
(1h 32m 19s) Codey:
Um, see, actually, a little bit does the male, the female will come, and the males are always winged.
(1h 32m 25s)
Um, and I actually, so I found some female, like when you find a female in, like a trap, for example, it’s within another, another bug.
(1h 32m 36s)
So all of the ones I’ve found have been in either wasps or a couple bees, but it’s like you’re looking at the bee under the microscope later after you’ve like pinned it and everything.
(1h 32m 46s)
And you’re like, oh, there’s a strep sipter in there.
(1h 32m 49s)
Like, there’s something sticking out there.
(1h 32m 50s)
Um, and it’s like, oh, cool, I have a female.
(1h 32m 54s)
And the males are pretty uncommon to collect.
(1h 32m 58s)
And I have found, I found like maybe 10 in my trap residue, and it was like striking gold.
(1h 33m 5s)
Like I was in, I was ecstatic.
(1h 33m 8s)
Because I had been looking through like, like, I think I identified 50,000 insects during my project and like, finding these things, I was like a kid at Christmas.
(1h 33m 19s)
I was like, this is so cool.
(1h 33m 20s)
Like, I have a male strips after it.
(1h 33m 22s)
Um, Yeah, I guess that’s it.
(1h 33m 25s)
They’re just not very common.
(1h 33m 27s)
Um, to see, because the males just mate and then die.
(1h 33m 32s)
That’s the life.
(1h 33m 33s)
Um, and also really interestingly, they’re the most, the thing that they’re most closely related to are Beatles.
(1h 33m 39s)
wild.
(1h 33m 41s) Kelly:
Oh.
(1h 33m 41s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 33m 42s)
Not what you’d expect.
(1h 33m 43s)
Um, last three.
(1h 33m 46s)
Okay, Tricoptera.
(1h 33m 47s)
These are the cadisflies.
(1h 33m 48s)
Tricoptera just means hairy winged.
(1h 33m 50s)
So these are very closely related to butterflies, but butterflies have scaly wings.
(1h 33m 54s)
Um, the larvae are aquatic, and people will use them.
(1h 33m 59s)
They like make this silk productive case around them to protect themselves and people will raise caddisfly larvae and give them like turquoise and other things that the larvae will then make into its case.
(1h 34m 15s)
And it’s like a piece of jewellery at the end of it.
(1h 34m 17s)
And people will use this and sell the jewellery.
(1h 34m 20s)
Like they’ll wait for the larvae.
(1h 34m 21s)
to leave the case and and become an adult and leave and whatever.
(1h 34m 23s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 34m 25s) Codey:
But then people will sell that as jewellery, which is really cool.
(1h 34m 29s) Kelly:
So cool.
(1h 34m 29s) Codey:
I also have a catisfly case that I got in, um, Arizona.
(1h 34m 30s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 34m 36s) Codey:
I saw it and I picked it up and I was like, oh, there’s no, there’s not a catisfly in here anymore.
(1h 34m 41s)
interesting.
(1h 34m 41s)
But what I did see is there was a beetle in there.
(1h 34m 44s)
So this caddis fly larvae, just grabbed a whole ass beetle.
(1h 34m 50s)
I need to.
(1h 34m 52s)
take a photo and send it to you.
(1h 34m 53s)
It’s like put it on the slack because it’s just, it’s literally just a beetle that’s like, that’s like stuck.
(1h 34m 59s)
And was… No, it just got, it just got silked into and like tied into this, into the case.
(1h 35m) Kelly:
So did it like eat it or like what?
(1h 35m 7s)
Ah.
(1h 35m 8s) Codey:
Like it was an aquatic beetle.
(1h 35m 10s)
So it’s one of the aquatic beetles.
(1h 35m 11s)
Like I was catching some of those beetles just existing.
(1h 35m 14s)
Um, they’re aquatic as adults.
(1h 35m 16s)
But it’s just stuck.
(1h 35m 19s) Kelly:
That’s so funny.
(1h 35m 19s) Codey:
Just imagine you’re swimming around and someone grabs you and makes you makes you part of their clothing, basically.
(1h 35m 27s) Kelly:
You’re coming home with me.
(1h 35m 27s) Codey:
Yeah, exactly.
(1h 35m 29s)
Oh, so interesting.
(1h 35m 31s)
Caddis flies are another one of the groups that are really important for in relation to water quality and they’re really important for fly fishing.
(1h 35m 38s)
Um, like people will try and make their flies look like a like a caddis fly.
(1h 35m 43s)
Um, okay, macoptera.
(1h 35m 46s)
So these are the scorpion flies, and they’re called that because they look like scorpions.
(1h 35m 51s)
So they’re really big family is called Panorpidae, and we have these in Pennsylvania.
(1h 35m 57s)
So I see them fairly regularly.
(1h 35m 58s)
And the adult, it’s it’s the fact that their hind end is like structure, it looks like a scorpion tail.
(1h 36m 6s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 36m 6s) Codey:
And I can’t remember if it actually has venom or not, or if it’s just used to stab to like.
(1h 36m 12s) Kelly:
I don’t think it is because I’ve seen these before.
(1h 36m 14s)
Like, I’ve seen them when I would visit my family in Pennsylvania.
(1h 36m 17s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 36m 17s) Kelly:
And I remember being horrified.
(1h 36m 20s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 36m 20s) Kelly:
And them just being like, no, you’re fine.
(1h 36m 21s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 36m 22s) Kelly:
Like, it’s not.
(1h 36m 23s) Codey:
It’s not gonna bother, like, it won’t bother you.
(1h 36m 24s) Kelly:
Not gonna hurt you.
(1h 36m 25s) Codey:
I don’t know
(1h 36m 26s)
It might be something that like they fight each other though.
(1h 36m 28s)
Like a male fights another male.
(1h 36m 30s) Kelly:
Maybe, yeah, something like that.
(1h 36m 30s) Codey:
Because…
(1h 36m 31s) Kelly:
Also, like they have like freaky faces, right?
(1h 36m 33s)
Like they have like a long nose or something.
(1h 36m 35s) Codey:
Yes, their faces.
(1h 36m 35s) Kelly:
Yeah, I know they’re like weird all around.
(1h 36m 37s) Codey:
They they have a lot going on.
(1h 36m 40s)
But yeah, they’re facing, they have like this really long snoot.
(1h 36m 43s)
like think of like an ant eater almost.
(1h 36m 45s)
Like, it just, it’s just like a long, elongated snoot.
(1h 36m 49s)
Um,
(1h 36m 49s) Kelly:
It’s a very interesting bug.
(1h 36m 50s) Codey:
It is, and the adults are scavengers, so they’ll eat dead bugs that they find, including from spider webs.
(1h 36m 59s)
So they will actually like take a dead bug out of a spider web and and fly off with it.
(1h 37m 6s)
And the spider’s like, no, you kids.
(1h 37m 8s)
Um, and then the larvae scavenge for other insects, uh, while in the leaf litter.
(1h 37m 14s)
So all around, they’re just good scavengers.
(1h 37m 17s)
But if you haven’t, if you’ve never seen a scorpion fly, look up the family, Panorpid, or we’ll put it in the show notes.
(1h 37m 23s)
These things are nuts.
(1h 37m 24s)
Um, okay, last fam- last order is syphon after us.
(1h 37m 28s)
These are the fleas.
(1h 37m 29s)
Um, they are also obligate parasites.
(1h 37m 32s)
They are flattened sideways.
(1h 37m 34s)
I feel like everyone knows what a flea is.
(1h 37m 36s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 37m 36s) Codey:
Really not a lot to say.
(1h 37m 38s)
I will say, I’m always shocked that these are hollow metabolis because I always, my brain always puts them alongside lice that they’re like probably really closely related to lice, but they’re not, like, they are…
(1h 37m 51s) Kelly:
Um, I would have assumed the same thing, honestly, like.
(1h 37m 53s) Codey:
Yeah, but they are pretty far away, like pretty distinct.
(1h 37m 58s)
And it’s just this is just another example of organisms converging on a certain body plan or a certain strategy.
(1h 38m 6s)
So, um, you know, like there’s a couple different.
(1h 38m 11s)
There also a fly that did this.
(1h 38m 12s)
There’s like flies that have become like louse flies that will that look like lice, but it’s a fly.
(1h 38m 19s)
Um, It’s just if there’s a niche that exists, a niche that exists.
(1h 38m 26s)
can’t remember what Johnny hated and what he liked when it.
(1h 38m 29s)
How do you say niche or niche?
(1h 38m 29s) Kelly:
I say niche.
(1h 38m 30s) Codey:
I think I say niche as well.
(1h 38m 34s) Kelly:
But both are correct, so.
(1h 38m 34s) Codey:
Technically, yeah, but one is one is better.
(1h 38m 39s)
Um, I like I prefer niche.
(1h 38m 39s) Kelly:
I think niche is more common as far as I’ve heard.
(1h 38m 43s)
I also prefer nation.
(1h 38m 43s) Codey:
Yeah, that, like, you know, there’s things that you could suck the blood out of, and there’s a certain body plan of being flat that helps you to do that effectively and avoid getting captured.
(1h 38m 55s)
And so there’s, you know, these that do that, there’s lice, there’s, um,
(1h 39m 1s) Kelly:
I mean, you even have like flounders, like, you know, it’s a…
(1h 39m 3s) Codey:
Yeah, yeah.
(1h 39m 4s)
Um, yeah, it’s just another example of, uh, there’s there’s a niche and you gotta, it, it behoves you to look a certain way if you’re gonna do that.
(1h 39m 12s)
So.
(1h 39m 13s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 39m 14s) Codey:
Okay, I will stop it there.
(1h 39m 15s)
We’ve been talking for a hot minute.
(1h 39m 17s)
Um, and now we’ll jump into silk saw.
Silksong
(1h 39m 21s) Codey:
So yeah, our main topic today is Silk Song, or I guess Hollow Knight Silk song is the whole title of the game. So the quick blurb of this game on Steam and is, quote, discover a vast, haunted kingdom and Holla Knight Silk song, Explorer Fight, and survive as you ascend to the peak of a land ruled by silk and song.
(1h 39m 42s)
Um, So this game is a sequel.
(1h 39m 46s)
Uh, holiday night itself came out in 2017, and then in 2019, Team Cherry mentioned that there will be, there would be a DLC coming out, and it was called Silk Song.
(1h 39m 55s)
Uh, and people just waited.
(1h 39m 58s)
They were like drip feeding things, I guess, and there was a…
(1h 40m 1s) Kelly:
Um, No.
(1h 40m 5s)
There was like communication for like the 1st 2 years and then there was like radio silence.
(1h 40m 10s) Codey:
Okay.
(1h 40m 10s) Kelly:
Um, besides like a few comments from their PR guy, uh, let on on Twitter.
(1h 40m 18s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 40m 18s) Kelly:
Um, but there was a few moments where I was kind of like, did they die?
(1h 40m 22s)
Like, are they alive at all?
(1h 40m 24s) Codey:
Okay, 0 no.
(1h 40m 25s) Kelly:
But also, I had full faith in them?
(1h 40m 28s)
To, to, to come out of this?
(1h 40m 31s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 40m 31s) Kelly:
Like, I never doubted or their, um, finishing of this game.
(1h 40m 36s)
I guess.
(1h 40m 37s) Codey:
Yeah, they’re just…
(1h 40m 38s) Kelly:
I think there’s a lot of people I would doubt.
(1h 40m 40s) Codey:
Yeah, you just gotta let them cook.
(1h 40m 41s) Kelly:
Um.
(1h 40m 42s)
Exactly, like, I’m very patient.
(1h 40m 45s)
I’m still waiting for the next Game of Thrones book.
(1h 40m 50s)
You know?
(1h 40m 50s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 40m 51s) Kelly:
I am a very patient person.
(1h 40m 54s) Codey:
Yeah, so people, people were waiting for a hot minute.
(1h 40m 57s)
And then, uh, last year, Team Cherry had said they had a special announcement on August 20, 21st.
(1h 41m 3s)
It was like 2 days before.
(1h 41m 5s)
They were like, hey, we’re gonna have a special live stream on the 21st, like, make sure that you’re there.
(1h 41m 10s)
And during that live stream or that announcement, they were like, so the game is done and it’ll be released in 2 weeks.
(1h 41m 19s) Kelly:
Yeah, yep.
(1h 41m 19s) Codey:
From…
(1h 41m 20s) Kelly:
Which was like kind of like mentally hard for me because like I like to prepare for things and I was like, oh, maybe I’ll play hollow night before silk song actually comes out.
(1h 41m 30s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 41m 31s) Kelly:
Um, and that definitely wasn’t enough time for that.
(1h 41m 34s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 41m 34s) Kelly:
I mean, like, it definitely could have been, but like, I like to take my time.
(1h 41m 38s)
I don’t know.
(1h 41m 39s) Codey:
I mean, it’s, there’s, there’s definitely, you can speed run out.
(1h 41m 42s)
There’s a bit a healthy speed running community for hollow night and now for silk song.
(1h 41m 45s) Kelly:
Yes, yeah.
(1h 41m 46s) Codey:
Um, but there’s also just fun.
(1h 41m 49s)
It like a cute little story.
(1h 41m 50s)
There’s a lot more.
(1h 41m 51s)
there’s like lure to it and stuff.
(1h 41m 53s)
So you can just do it as like a speed run fun game, fun like, challenge, but you could, there’s also a lot to enjoy if you take your time.
(1h 41m 59s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 42m 2s)
Yeah, there’s there, it’s a huge world in both games.
(1h 42m 4s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 42m 5s)
And I will say it was really funny because a lot of games moved their release date when Silk Song.
(1h 42m 11s) Kelly:
Yes.
(1h 42m 12s)
They were like, oh, the king is coming.
(1h 42m 15s)
Let me, or I’m sorry, the queen, I guess, is coming.
(1h 42m 16s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 42m 18s) Kelly:
Let me step out of the way.
(1h 42m 19s) Codey:
And I remember like some games.
(1h 42m 22s)
And we talked about this on the podcast at the time, but like some games were like, it was like getting out of the way of a whale.
(1h 42m 28s)
Like you were just a small grill and you’re just like, I need to, I need to let this.
(1h 42m 29s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 42m 34s) Codey:
Well, and because if you tried to release again at the same time,
(1h 42m 37s)
I feel like a lot of these games will have an overlap.
(1h 42m 41s)
A lot of the people that, like, cosy games will overlap with people that like Silk Song, um, and so, like, your take, it’s completely detracting from your player base.
(1h 42m 42s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 42m 50s) Codey:
And so.
(1h 42m 51s) Kelly:
I mean, like that, like, uh, just like marketing and like spoken word and like content creators, even like playing your game, like,
(1h 42m 58s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 42m 59s)
Yep.
(1h 43m) Kelly:
You know, I think unfortunately that is one thing that like they probably could have handled better in terms of like the rest of the gaming community, but also whatever.
(1h 43m 9s)
It is what it is now.
(1h 43m 12s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 43m 12s)
So we’ve both played this.
(1h 43m 15s)
Neither of us have beat it.
(1h 43m 16s)
Um, but I guess like, Kelly, what were your 1st thoughts, um, for suppressions of the game and thoughts, and like how much gameplay time do you have in it?
(1h 43m 16s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 43m 24s) Codey:
And then also like, what are you playing it on?
(1h 43m 27s) Kelly:
Oh my god, uh, let me check SteamX.
(1h 43m 29s)
So I’m playing it on my computer.
(1h 43m 30s) Codey:
Okay.
(1h 43m 30s) Kelly:
Um, Which is, so I played Hollow Night entirely handheld on the Switch.
(1h 43m 37s) Codey:
Okay.
(1h 43m 37s) Kelly:
Um, so I think like that alone is like a big change because now I have like, you know, a big computer monitor to play it on.
(1h 43m 47s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 43m 47s) Kelly:
Um, which is nice.
(1h 43m 49s)
I have 80 hours in.
(1h 43m 51s)
Which is funny because I think I’m a maybe halfway.
(1h 43m 51s) Codey:
Okay.
(1h 43m 58s) Kelly:
Also, I will note, like, I really love backtracking and like just exploring everything and like every time I get a new mechanic, I’m like, gotta go back and check out.
(1h 44m 5s)
You know, the places I marked off that I couldn’t reach before or something.
(1h 44m 10s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 44m 10s) Kelly:
So like for me, I think like both Holiday and Silk Song are like about the exploration and like finding secrets and like kind of just like traversing around a lot.
(1h 44m 21s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 44m 22s) Kelly:
Um, so like, immediately I was just like, I think like any minor worry was immediately swayed as soon as I started playing the game because it just, it just feels like an improvement upon holiday night.
(1h 44m 31s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 44m 37s) Kelly:
Like, it’s the same vibe, like, it’s so immersive, the the backgrounds and the music are so beautiful, like everything just…
(1h 44m 45s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 44m 46s) Kelly:
I think comes together so nicely in that same way.
(1h 44m 50s)
Um,
(1h 44m 51s)
And then I think they improved, you know, some of some of the mechanics, like, how long it is a very simple game.
(1h 44m 59s)
At base level.
(1h 45m) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 45m 1s) Kelly:
Like the mechanics are very simple.
(1h 45m 5s)
You have very little things that you can add onto your move set.
(1h 45m 8s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 45m 8s) Kelly:
And it’s more about how you use those like simple mechanics.
(1h 45m 11s)
Um, and I think like, Silk Song still has that same concept, but there are areas that they expanded upon.
(1h 45m 19s)
Which I think is fun because I think it lets you as like the player kind of, it gives you more options on how you want to play the game.
(1h 45m 19s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 45m 27s) Kelly:
So I think that’s very interesting, like very fun.
(1h 45m 27s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 45m 28s)
And it.
(1h 45m 29s)
Yeah, it creates different like paths of playing the game and different because there’s just different styles.
(1h 45m 34s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 45m 36s) Codey:
It reminds me a lot.
(1h 45m 37s)
I played World of Warcraft, and it reminds me of a lot of like, at 1st you were like, oh, I play a hunter, and so you know exactly what that means.
(1h 45m 45s)
But then later there were specialisations that you could do.
(1h 45m 45s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 45m 50s) Codey:
And so then it was like, oh, I’m a marksmanship hunter.
(1h 45m 53s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 45m 53s) Codey:
And then it’s like, okay, I know exactly, like that’s different than if you were a survival hunter or whatever.
(1h 46m)
And so it’s, you know, talking to some people and being like, oh, what, um, I can’t even remember what they’re called.
(1h 46m 6s) Kelly:
I know, I know, I know.
(1h 46m 7s)
I’m like blanking on it.
(1h 46m 8s)
so hard right now.
(1h 46m 9s) Codey:
But like, there’s different.
(1h 46m 9s) Kelly:
Oh my god.
(1h 46m 10s)
It’s like the crests.
(1h 46m 11s) Codey:
Yeah, there’s a different different crusts that you can have and it’s like, oh, what crust are you playing?
(1h 46m 12s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 46m 16s) Codey:
What, what, um, items are you using?
(1h 46m 20s) Kelly:
Like what, what, um, tools do you have like equipped?
(1h 46m 22s) Codey:
Yes, yeah.
(1h 46m 23s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(1h 46m 24s) Codey:
Um, what tools do you have equipped and like what? I think the one thing, so one thing that was different that got me when I 1st started playing is Hornet.
(1h 46m 34s)
So in Hollow Night, the Hollow Night, like it, when you go down, like you go straight down, like when you’re jumping or whatever.
(1h 46m 39s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 46m 40s)
Yes.
(1h 46m 42s) Codey:
And Hornet goes kind of like at an angle to the side and that messed me up.
(1h 46m 45s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 46m 48s) Codey:
But later there’s a crest that basically lets you go back to the previous. And I’m like always doing that crunch.
(1h 46m 52s) Kelly:
Yes.
(1h 46m 57s)
So it’s so funny because I played this game at the same time as like another one of my friends and she was having a miserable time with the pogoing because of that.
(1h 47m 7s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 47m 7s) Kelly:
And honestly, I, I did not think that I could like pogoing more with a diagonal.
(1h 47m 14s)
I love it.
(1h 47m 15s)
I think it’s, I don’t know.
(1h 47m 17s)
I don’t know why.
(1h 47m 17s)
I have not changed from.
(1h 47m 20s)
I have not changed to like the crust that makes you go down.
(1h 47m 22s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 47m 22s) Kelly:
I think I did try it once and I like died almost immediately and I was like, I’m not doing this.
(1h 47m 28s)
Like, I don’t know, my brain, I did struggle with it at 1st in like that hunter, um, area.
(1h 47m 33s)
And then I think as soon as I figured it out, my brain was just like, yeah, you got it.
(1h 47m 34s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 47m 39s) Kelly:
Go ahead.
(1h 47m 39s)
So, like, you’re not the only person I’ve heard have issues with that.
(1h 47m 40s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 47m 44s) Kelly:
And obviously, like, they have a crest in the game to help you with it.
(1h 47m 47s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 47m 47s) Kelly:
So I think that is interesting, like, you know.
(1h 47m 49s)
But yeah, it did mess me up really bad like the 1st few times.
(1h 47m 53s)
Like, I just kept missing everything.
(1h 47m 55s) Codey:
Well, and a lot of people, like it’s, the game was a lot more fluid as well.
(1h 47m 58s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 47m 59s) Codey:
And so a lot of people like saw, like, you can adjust, once you, if you can adapt to it, like, you can fit, like, you can figure it out, but I just was so, you know, if I push down and I’m trying and I’m trying to pogo off of something, I’m expecting to go down.
(1h 48m 14s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 48m 15s)
Yeah, which I think is like a natural expectation.
(1h 48m 19s)
Um, but I did want to go back to one thing you said, like, about how, um, all of these options give you different paths.
(1h 48m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 48m 26s) Kelly:
Which I do think is also really cool because I do think it, um,
(1h 48m 27s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 48m 32s) Kelly:
Expands on the freedom in general, like in Holland, you could kind of go anyway and still progress the story unless there was like a hard, Stop, and even then a lot of the time, you could find a way to fenagle around it.
(1h 48m 36s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 48m 45s)
Yeah.
(1h 48m 45s) Kelly:
And so like you could do the story and basically any order you wanted as long as you hit like, like a few main markers, you know?
(1h 48m 53s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 48m 54s) Kelly:
Um, And I think that kind of like having this option to like also do that with your character is like the next kind of step in that as well.
(1h 49m 3s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 49m 3s) Kelly:
So I think that just adds like more of this like, free movement idea, you know?
(1h 49m 8s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 49m 9s)
Um, and the, you don’t start with all the crusts, like there’s the start, you get the hunter crust at 1st and then you can go acquire the other crests.
(1h 49m 13s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 49m 17s) Codey:
So some folks, like, if you’ve played the game and you’re trying to replay through again, you’re like, okay, well, I know I need to go to Graymoor to get the Reaper Crust or wherever, like the in the chapel of the Reaper.
(1h 49m 25s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 49m 28s) Codey:
Like I have to go get this crust.
(1h 49m 29s)
And so then you can kind of beeline right for that area because you know that that’s what you want. Um, So yeah, I think that was like my initial thing was like, oh, I hate that.
(1h 49m 33s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 49m 43s) Codey:
But, and then there’s different like abilities with like the spears, um, or like silk abilities, like how you throw your silk, how you use your silk, because instead of just having like just your sword, um, or your needle, I guess.
(1h 49m 48s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 49m 58s) Codey:
Um, you also have these like silk abilities that you can do where you can like throw your silk or you can like heal yourself or whatever.
(1h 50m 2s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 50m 6s) Codey:
And that just adds another layer of complexity.
(1h 50m 8s)
Like, I’m a big, like, heel person.
(1h 50m 10s)
But some people just like run in full bore and they have like a silk ability that is offensive rather than defensive. And it’s like, well, you know, uh, ain’t no problem if I just don’t get hit.
(1h 50m 10s) Kelly:
Me too.
(1h 50m 23s) Codey:
And I’m like, okay, but I get hit.
(1h 50m 25s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 50m 25s)
But like, I think that also, like, it’s that, like, goes back to obviously all the different play styles, but like, I think that’s like what’s so fun about the different crests and like the different, um, like the silk and everything, like, um, you can decide.
(1h 50m 37s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 50m 40s) Kelly:
Oh, I know I’m not going to get hit.
(1h 50m 42s)
So I’m going to take something that gives me double damage, but lets me dole out double damage also. Like, that risk is so high, but also so rewarding if you know that you’re like capable of it.
(1h 50m 48s) Codey:
Hmm.
(1h 50m 53s) Kelly:
Like I, I don’t, I don’t really do that one.
(1h 50m 53s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 50m 56s)
No, I don’t either.
(1h 50m 59s) Kelly:
That one’s not for me.
(1h 51m 1s)
Um, but yeah, like I think I think like the silk is like such an interesting extension on like the magic of Hollow Night, because like you had like force spells.
(1h 51m 8s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 51m 9s)
Yeah.
(1h 51m 10s) Kelly:
And like, that’s it.
(1h 51m 11s)
And you didn’t have any real ability to change how they worked, like they were just the spells you got.
(1h 51m 18s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 51m 18s) Kelly:
Um, so like, I mean, like there’s so much more in terms of like mechanics going on like across the whole game.
(1h 51m 26s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 51m 26s) Kelly:
Like you have, like there, you have to think a lot.
(1h 51m 28s)
There’s definitely a lot of thinking.
(1h 51m 30s) Codey:
Yeah, and there’s certain things that are definitely better for you in different areas.
(1h 51m 36s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 51m 36s) Codey:
Like one of the tools allows it so that like if you’re on lava or something, like you’re, you don’t take as much damage or whatever and it’s like, okay, well, you clearly need that to like get, get to a certain area.
(1h 51m 42s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 51m 46s)
Yeah.
(1h 51m 48s) Codey:
So it is kind of more like you’re locked in, um, to a specific…
(1h 51m 52s) Kelly:
Yeah, that one, that one’s so good to like, um, switch on and off, but like definitely not like a permanent.
(1h 51m 58s) Codey:
Yeah, that’s…
(1h 51m 59s) Kelly:
Which, again, like, is like kind of like similar to like the charm setup in Hollow Night, but like, I like the way they changed it in the game.
(1h 52m 3s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 52m 8s) Kelly:
Um, because also with the crest, you have different slot amounts.
(1h 52m 8s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 52m 13s) Kelly:
Per like your tools and your defensive items and everything.
(1h 52m 13s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 52m 17s) Kelly:
So you can really like customise how you want to, um, use them.
(1h 52m 22s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 52m 23s)
And then it’s fun to, like, when you’re in the game and you, you remember what all of these things mean and then you’re like, and then you see like someone else’s play and you’re like, like set up and you’re like, what is going on?
(1h 52m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 52m 32s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 52m 33s)
Yeah, like, what do you mean you’re not throwing, uh, you’re not throwing poison traps and poison arrows and everything?
(1h 52m 40s) Codey:
I do the same thing.
(1h 52m 40s) Kelly:
Like, what do you mean?
(1h 52m 42s)
I love a good trap.
(1h 52m 43s) Codey:
The one, the one thing that sucks with that, though, is like if you get stuck in an area.
(1h 52m 44s) Kelly:
I’m sorry.
(1h 52m 49s) Codey:
So like the poison or like some of the things that you throw rely on you having like beetle shards, like shards that you get from like things that, and if you, there are some spots where like you get stuck to a point where you have to beat the next boss to like move forward.
(1h 52m 52s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 52m 56s)
Yes.
(1h 53m 2s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 53m 2s) Codey:
And if you die like over and over and over again, eventually it’s just like you don’t have any anymore.
(1h 53m 7s)
And it’s like,
(1h 53m 7s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 53m 8s)
Yep, that’s why I have hoarded a…
(1h 53m 12s)
I had a stockpile of like hoarded charts. To like crack open, which I do really like like that in the beads.
(1h 53m 15s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 53m 19s) Kelly:
That you can like, um, make them into a somewhat more permanent item that doesn’t, uh, disintegrate if you die too many times.
(1h 53m 19s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 53m 25s)
Yeah.
(1h 53m 28s)
Yeah, that, like, kind of evens out the rough edge of a rogue light or a rogue game.
(1h 53m 32s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 53m 33s)
It, it’s, it definitely gives you, it’s, it gives you some sort of comfort.
(1h 53m 39s) Codey:
Yeah, like, oh, I have all this money, but I’m actually just gonna string it together so that when I die, it doesn’t go anywhere.
(1h 53m 44s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 53m 48s)
Like, how smart, just put it on some rosaries.
(1h 53m 50s) Codey:
Hell yeah.
(1h 53m 52s)
Um, okay, so I kind of want I want to talk a little bit about the story.
(1h 53m 56s)
So, Hornet herself is one of the bosses that you fight in the original Hollow Night game.
(1h 53m 57s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 54m 1s) Codey:
So you see her from the perspective of having to fight her and how and she’s like formidable.
(1h 54m 6s)
Um, and I don’t think you kill her.
(1h 54m 7s) Kelly:
Oh, yeah.
(1h 54m 9s) Codey:
I think she’s she just, you defeat her at different points in that game and it’s, she like, she’s like, 0 yes, you are a mighty warrior and then she like bails.
(1h 54m 10s) Kelly:
No.
(1h 54m 16s) Codey:
Um,
(1h 54m 17s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah.
(1h 54m 17s)
She’s like, oh, cool.
(1h 54m 18s)
I respect you a little bit more now each time we fight.
(1h 54m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 54m 20s)
She’s like, oh, I won’t stop you from going forward now.
(1h 54m 24s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 54m 24s) Codey:
Um, so this game, this is entirely like you are playing her.
(1h 54m 28s)
So you’re hornet.
(1h 54m 29s)
And, um, I found this blurb of, uh, she finds herself in the depths of an unknown kingdom called Farloom, which seems to be haunted by silk and song.
(1h 54m 39s)
It is up to Hornet to ascend to the citadel and uncover the truth and defeat an unknown entity in order to set the inhabitants of Farloom free from its control.
(1h 54m 49s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 54m 49s) Codey:
Um, and I like this little blurb.
(1h 54m 52s)
I don’t remember, I’m bad.
(1h 54m 54s)
I don’t remember what website I found on this album.
(1h 54m 56s)
Um, but it, like, kind of juxtaposes silk song with the original game, where, so silks, uh, the original game was in a place called Hollowness.
(1h 55m 6s)
Uh, or Hollow Nest.
(1h 55m 6s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 55m 7s)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(1h 55m 8s) Codey:
I don’t know how you want to say it.
(1h 55m 9s)
Um, so Farlum is, instead of descending into darkness, because that’s what Hollow Nest is, like you go underground, and Farlum, you’re ascending and on a pilgrimage towards the shiny, I mean, you’re not doing a pilgrimage, but like there are a ton of other bugs that are doing the pilgrimage and they talk about how like they’re, they go up to the citadel and, um, it’s like a rite of passage almost.
(1h 55m 17s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 55m 25s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 55m 35s) Codey:
Um, and yeah.
(1h 55m 36s) Kelly:
So can I actually, oh, sorry, go, go on, go on.
(1h 55m 39s)
I have a I have a point to add on to that after the end.
(1h 55m 41s) Codey:
Please, no, actually, you say.
(1h 55m 41s) Kelly:
Um, so I was going to say, I think it is very interesting because, so also, um, between the 2 games you have a lot of like religion.
(1h 55m 50s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 55m 50s) Kelly:
And in in Hollow Night, um, there is a loss of your gods. So, like, the gods are all dead, basically, or like the one that has taken over is rotting everything to its core because the other gods died.
(1h 55m 56s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 56m 4s)
Yeah.
(1h 56m 6s) Kelly:
Um, and you’re you’re descending into the darkness, but in Farloom, you have all of these pilgrims.
(1h 56m 7s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 56m 14s) Kelly:
Heading towards the uh, the sacred land, essentially, to make their pilgrimage.
(1h 56m 18s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 56m 19s) Kelly:
Um, and they get to ascend.
(1h 56m 21s)
Like, I think that’s just like, it’s very simple, but like also, I think, continues this like theme really well.
(1h 56m 22s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 56m 27s)
Yeah.
(1h 56m 28s)
Well, and I think it’s, like, interesting because when you when they do that.
(1h 56m 34s)
Like, in Hollow Night, in Hollow Nest, it’s like you are very aware that this land is unwell and like something is wrong and you are trying to make it right.
(1h 56m 43s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 56m 47s) Codey:
And in this game, you are ascending and it seems like everything’s fine.
(1h 56m 51s)
And the further up you go, the more you’re like, uh, oh.
(1h 56m 52s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 56m 55s) Codey:
Oh.
(1h 56m 56s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 56m 56s)
Yep.
(1h 56m 58s) Codey:
It’s like, and and the original game, like once you get to the end and you’re, like, and you are defeating, quote unquote, the big bad.
(1h 57m 6s)
Like, there’s a part where you’re like, oh, this is not a like this, this is like not a bad…
(1h 57m 11s) Kelly:
Yeah, the, the, the, yes, like, uh, your definition of like good and evil and like, why this is happening and like all of that are kind of questioned. Heavily.
(1h 57m 11s) Codey:
Oh, like it, that’s the subversion of the expectation.
(1h 57m 22s)
Yeah.
(1h 57m 23s)
And this game does the same thing just kind of like in the other direction.
(1h 57m 24s) Kelly:
So.
(1h 57m 28s)
Mm-hmm.
(1h 57m 28s) Codey:
Um, and so this blurb talked about silk as control.
(1h 57m 34s)
So as you’re going through this area, there’s a lot of organ, a lot of bugs that are alive and they’re up and about.
(1h 57m 41s)
There’s this one, um, gosh, what is her name?
(1h 57m 44s)
She is so sweet.
(1h 57m 45s) Kelly:
Oh, uh, chakra?
(1h 57m 45s) Codey:
Yeah.
(1h 57m 47s) Kelly:
Uh, Oh.
(1h 57m 47s) Codey:
Well, no, I love chakra too.
(1h 57m 48s)
Uh, the, the one that’s singing.
(1h 57m 51s) Kelly:
Oh, Sherma, Sherma’s my favourite.
(1h 57m 52s) Codey:
Germa.
(1h 57m 54s) Kelly:
I’ve been, so I was waiting for Sherma since the game that announced basically.
(1h 57m 58s) Codey:
Oh my gosh.
(1h 57m 59s) Kelly:
I have a little Sherma Plushie, and I dressed up as Sherma for Halloween.
(1h 58m 4s) Codey:
Oh, that’s so great.
(1h 58m 5s)
She’s so sweet.
(1h 58m 6s)
She’s just like,
(1h 58m 6s) Kelly:
I love her so much.
(1h 58m 8s) Codey:
She’s just like the, I’m gonna go up there and everything’s fine and everything’s good and she’s just singing her song like.
(1h 58m 12s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 58m 15s)
She’s like, I’m gonna heal the world with song.
(1h 58m 17s)
It’s fine.
(1h 58m 18s) Codey:
Yeah, and she, like, throughout all of it, like, I feel like, at least to the point where I’ve got, like, she’s, there’s parts where it’s very clearly dangerous, and then, and like, you’ve just, like, crawled through a battle, and, like, you’ve barely made it out alive, and Sherma’s just, like, there, like, hi, you made it.
(1h 58m 27s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 58m 33s)
Yeah.
(1h 58m 36s)
Let me sing you a song to fix you.
(1h 58m 39s) Codey:
It’s just like, how did you get here and why are you not?
(1h 58m 42s) Kelly:
Yep.
(1h 58m 43s) Codey:
Um, so there’s, there’s, uh, that.
(1h 58m 45s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(1h 58m 48s) Codey:
There’s like the bugs that are sentient, I guess, and like where and able to control themselves with and there are others that you’ll be walking by and there’s like dead bodies, places or whatever.
(1h 58m 58s)
And then suddenly like a, like silk kind of comes down to this animation, um, of something striking the body and it’s silk.
(1h 59m 8s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 59m 9s) Codey:
It’s like a silk spear style thing.
(1h 59m 12s)
Like, it’s like, and suddenly that body is up and moving.
(1h 59m 15s)
Um, and so it’s like silk is control because the, there’s like a puppet master at the top that can like kind of control all of these different things down below.
(1h 59m 16s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 59m 23s)
Yep.
(1h 59m 26s) Codey:
Um,
(1h 59m 28s) Kelly:
Which I think is also pretty, um, similar to the, uh, the radiant taking over, you know, ratings taking over with, with all of that, but also very different, like, because one is a hive mind and one is more of a puppeteering.
(1h 59m 34s) Codey:
Yep.
(1h 59m 39s)
Hmm.
(1h 59m 43s) Kelly:
So like I think like the similarities are very, like, interesting, but also clearly not exactly the same.
(1h 59m 44s) Codey:
Yes.
(1h 59m 52s)
And the closer you get to the citadel, uh, the stronger these are.
(1h 59m 56s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(1h 59m 57s) Codey:
So like the more of the more that you’re going to find, but also the stronger the enemies that are, um, controlled with silk are, um, yeah, it’s it’s very interesting.
(2h 4s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 11s) Codey:
And you’re always like, hmm, who is the puppet domaster?
(2h 14s)
Um, and then song, this song is hypnosis.
(2h 14s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 18s) Codey:
And the bells and music flow through the architecture, the weapons and the enemies, and this constant song guides and ensnares the kingdom’s people.
(2h 26s)
Um, there’s definitely the part of like the songs that are holy, that are like like Sherma, like trying, like saying she’s going to heal the world, but there are some songs.
(2h 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 35s) Codey:
And there’s once you’re in the citadel, there’s like a part of it where you have to uncover some harmonies and there’s these, I want to say 3 different harmonies of like the different, some different, um, factions within the citadel that you can acquire their harmony and then you play it all together.
(2h 42s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 54s) Codey:
And like the part when you, I don’t know if you, I didn’t, I, so I didn’t, I don’t think I got to this part, but I watched my husband play it and there’s a part where like you unlock all 3 of them together and there’s a cut scene and then,
(2h 1m 4s) Kelly:
I don’t think I got to that either, but I know the area that you’re talking about with like the coral chamber area, right?
(2h 1m 9s) Codey:
The.
(2h 1m 10s)
Yes, the coral chamber, yeah.
(2h 1m 11s) Kelly:
Like, yeah, okay.
(2h 1m 12s) Codey:
And the music is like, I have goosebumps right now.
(2h 1m 16s)
Like this.
(2h 1m 18s)
Christopher Larkin, man.
(2h 1m 19s)
Like…
(2h 1m 20s) Kelly:
Oh my god, I have, I have the 1st vinyl set.
(2h 1m 24s) Codey:
Oh.
(2h 1m 24s) Kelly:
Like extended from that and I still get goosebumps from like, I think the Sisters of Battle still gets me every time, like it is just like such insane boss music.
(2h 1m 31s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 1m 34s)
Yeah. Oh, there’s another, what’s the other one that’s, um,
(2h 1m 40s)
Uh, in in the original game.
(2h 1m 43s)
There’s the one that’s like an area.
(2h 1m 46s)
It’s like a, not a chapel.
(2h 1m 48s)
It’s like a morgue area, cathedral.
(2h 1m 51s) Kelly:
Oh, the resting grounds or…
(2h 1m 52s) Codey:
It’s a cathedral, a spire.
(2h 1m 55s)
I’m going to look it up, but, um,
(2h 1m 58s) Kelly:
Oh, not not un.
(2h 2m)
Um, because there are a few like cathedrally looking places.
(2h 2m 5s) Codey:
Oh my gosh, I just looked up Hollow Nightmap and these maps are huge, y’all.
(2h 2m 8s) Kelly:
They are so big.
(2h 2m 12s) Codey:
My goodness.
(2h 2m 14s) Kelly:
Well, that’s so just to go back, that is what delayed the game because they just cannot help themselves from discontinuing to add more and more in.
(2h 2m 19s) Codey:
They just kept going.
(2h 2m 22s) Kelly:
Which is so funny, like, which I love.
(2h 2m 26s)
Like, again, my whole, my favourite, I like, I like, I like the bosses.
(2h 2m 29s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 2m 30s) Kelly:
But my favourite part of the game is exploring, and like, I just think they make such a good map.
(2h 2m 36s) Codey:
It’s in, I think it’s in the City of Tears.
(2h 2m 39s) Kelly:
Oh, the sole symptom.
(2h 2m 40s) Codey:
The soul sanctum.
(2h 2m 43s)
The music and the soul sanctum.
(2h 2m 43s) Kelly:
Oh my god.
(2h 2m 45s) Codey:
Ah, it’s so…
(2h 2m 46s) Kelly:
Oh god, yeah, that is, that is some good, that, the whole soul sanctum area is like, ooh.
(2h 2m 52s) Codey:
Well, not boss sucks.
(2h 2m 53s) Kelly:
Yeah, I hate that boss.
(2h 2m 54s) Codey:
Like, it’s a great box.
(2h 2m 56s) Kelly:
It is.
(2h 2m 56s) Codey:
He just sucks so bad.
(2h 2m 58s)
And so like whenever I hear that music, my heart rate is just like, ugh.
(2h 3m) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 3m 1s) Codey:
Oh, and then like Dung Defender.
(2h 3m 1s) Kelly:
I think that’s um, that’s when my controller started dying.
(2h 3m 5s) Codey:
Oh no.
(2h 3m 6s) Kelly:
Or I was getting like, um, you know, like uh, stick drift.
(2h 3m 11s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 3m 11s) Kelly:
Which was not helping with that boss.
(2h 3m 11s) Codey:
Oh.
(2h 3m 13s)
Not something you want.
(2h 3m 14s) Kelly:
No.
(2h 3m 15s) Codey:
Um.
(2h 3m 18s) Kelly:
Like that whole, that whole game has such good music, honestly.
(2h 3m 21s) Codey:
Yeah, and and this one as well, like, there’s a whole part where you are getting, you’re trying to get those 3 harmonies so that you can, um, like have them sing it. And then basically like all together, it will unlock like another stage.
(2h 3m 21s) Kelly:
like so does this one.
(2h 3m 35s) Codey:
Like you’ll be able to ascend a little bit further.
(2h 3m 37s)
Um, And it is just so good.
(2h 3m 41s)
I don’t know, I guess I don’t know where I was going to go with that.
(2h 3m 44s)
And then like.
(2h 3m 45s)
The last part that says is faith and pilgrimage.
(2h 3m 48s)
So Farlum’s faithful don’t descend, they ascend.
(2h 3m 50s)
Um, and the silk spool symbolises this journey.
(2h 3m 54s)
So your almost health bar, basically.
(2h 3m 57s)
No, no, it’s not your health bar.
(2h 3m 59s)
It’s like your magic, like,
(2h 4m) Kelly:
Um, yeah, I was gonna say like magic or like, um, not energy, but like, I guess like mana.
(2h 4m 6s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 4m 7s) Kelly:
Yeah, so like magic, yeah, it all.
(2h 4m 10s) Codey:
Yeah, and as you go through the game, like it gets longer and and you have more health and and it’s just a little bit bigger and you’re sturdier and stuff. And I think like the more silk you have, the, I think, I guess I don’t really know what it’s trying to say.
(2h 4m 25s)
trying to see if I can spin a tale of like, you’re more connected with the faith when you have more silk, but I don’t know if that’s necessarily true.
(2h 4m 34s)
But.
(2h 4m 35s) Kelly:
It could be.
(2h 4m 36s)
I mean, there’s also, um, so to dive into a little hollow night and silk song, lore, um, hornet is half weaver, which is like spidery.
(2h 4m 42s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 4m 46s)
Mm-hmm.
(2h 4m 47s) Kelly:
Um, and then half worm.
(2h 4m 49s)
So, like, naturally, she does have a connection to the silk, but, like, also, it’s very interesting to see the silk within Farloom itself.
(2h 4m 54s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 5m) Kelly:
Like, because it’s like, like, I expected it to just be more so of just hornets skill.
(2h 5m) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 5m 7s) Kelly:
At 1st like before the game came out.
(2h 5m 8s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 5m 10s) Kelly:
Um, but there’s clearly so much tied into it, even though, Um, I think Hornet is the last lever.
(2h 5m 13s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 5m 17s)
Yeah.
(2h 5m 18s)
Well, I think that’s also like something that’s so in the original game, like Hornet is such an anomaly.
(2h 5m 23s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 5m 25s) Codey:
It’s like all of these other bugs, like have certain mechanics, have certain whatever, like you know, you understand how they’re fighting.
(2h 5m 26s) Kelly:
Yes.
(2h 5m 31s) Codey:
And then she comes in and she has like this silk and this threat and this needle and like, it’s like, who are you?
(2h 5m 35s) Kelly:
Throwing spikes and she moves so fast and.
(2h 5m 37s) Codey:
And she’s clearly like different.
(2h 5m 40s)
And then, and this game starts off with, she’s in Hollow Nest, but then she gets abducted and brought to Farloom.
(2h 5m 48s)
And she starts realising, like she, as you’re ascending, she’s also kind of uncovering a little bit about, I think, her past as well, because she thought that all of the weavers are dead.
(2h 5m 56s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 5m 59s)
Yeah.
(2h 5m 59s) Codey:
And I think they all are, but like the entity at the top of the citadel, like, has a connection to the weavers.
(2h 6m 7s) Kelly:
Yeah, and you see other.
(2h 6m 7s) Codey:
And so it’s like also her, yeah.
(2h 6m 9s) Kelly:
You see other characters along the way too that clearly have like connections to the weavers, even if they’re not weavers themselves, like, um, Oh, what’s that one in Sinners Road?
(2h 6m 14s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 6m 20s) Kelly:
Stick.
(2h 6m 22s) Codey:
I hate sinners.
(2h 6m 24s) Kelly:
Oh, God.
(2h 6m 25s)
Centres Road is like actually like disgusting.
(2h 6m 29s)
Like, I don’t know how they did such a good job of making such a vile, like I feel dirty.
(2h 6m 34s) Codey:
Yes, 100%.
(2h 6m 37s) Kelly:
It’s, it’s, it’s crazy.
(2h 6m 39s)
Oh my god.
(2h 6m 40s) Codey:
I think also like all of the, I think part of it is in that area, like things stick to you and things, like, if you…
(2h 6m 48s) Kelly:
Yes.
(2h 6m 48s)
Um, if you go in the water.
(2h 6m 52s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 6m 52s)
There’s like things that will eat you and then will start eating your silk.
(2h 6m 56s)
Um, and it’s just, you feel dirty and you feel like infected and lit.
(2h 7m) Kelly:
It, it’s, yep.
(2h 7m 2s)
Yep.
(2h 7m 3s)
And it’s like, it’s like you can’t get.
(2h 7m 6s) Codey:
Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm.
(2h 7m 7s) Kelly:
And like, I think that’s like, okay, to go to the water, though, like, 0 my god, the 1st time I fell in the water, ugh.
(2h 7m 12s) Codey:
Yep.
(2h 7m 13s) Kelly:
Because also, like, Sinners Road is hard and like, you’re already struggling enough as it is and it’s like, just kick me when I’m down.
(2h 7m 19s)
Like, thank you.
(2h 7m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 7m 21s) Kelly:
But I think I had like, um, I had it, I didn’t have enough stored, um, Did you have yourself, but you also have, um,
(2h 7m 30s)
On the side, like, you’re useable.
(2h 7m 33s) Codey:
Mhm.
(2h 7m 33s) Kelly:
However, yeah, yeah, like, um, It’s like you have, you have your health.
(2h 7m 33s) Codey:
The shards.
(2h 7m 39s) Kelly:
Oh yeah, you have that health and then you have your your silk and like, if you don’t cure yourself fast enough of the water, like it just eats everything and then you’re stuck.
(2h 7m 47s) Codey:
Yep.
(2h 7m 47s) Kelly:
You’re screwed.
(2h 7m 47s) Codey:
Yep Yep.
(2h 7m 49s)
And then like, and they’re still there.
(2h 7m 51s)
And if you start gaining more silk, the like silk eater things that are infected with you are like, oh, cool, more silk. And you’re like, ow, and you have to like get enough to be able to like heal yourself and like get rid of all of them.
(2h 7m 51s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(2h 7m 56s)
Yep.
(2h 8m)
Yeah.
(2h 8m 5s)
Yep.
(2h 8m 6s)
And then you’re stuck in Sarah’s Road with like nothing.
(2h 8m 6s) Codey:
But…
(2h 8m 11s)
Yeah, because they just consume all of your resources.
(2h 8m 14s) Kelly:
Talk about parasitic bugs.
(2h 8m 16s) Codey:
Parasitic box for sure.
(2h 8m 19s)
Um, yeah, it’s just, it’s, I guess that’s like the gist of it without like fully going into spoiler mode or anything and I don’t, neither of us have finished it.
(2h 8m 28s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 8m 29s) Codey:
So like, I don’t, it’s, we don’t have to talk, talk about it anymore than that.
(2h 8m 33s) Kelly:
Yeah, it’s like, I didn’t want to talk about like what Styx does.
(2h 8m 33s) Codey:
I, like,
(2h 8m 36s)
Right.
(2h 8m 37s)
Um, but I guess like, the final, like, final thoughts about this game or, like, did you have any specific questions?
(2h 8m 45s)
What, like, what are your favourite parts of it?
(2h 8m 47s)
Um…
(2h 8m 48s) Kelly:
Um, I know I’m like kind of a sicko, but I do love, uh, the hunter’s marsh.
(2h 8m 56s) Codey:
Oh my gosh, why do you?
(2h 8m 56s) Kelly:
I also I love pogoing.
(2h 8m 58s) Codey:
Why do you hate yourself?
(2h 8m 59s) Kelly:
Like I.
(2h 9m)
I think it’s so fun.
(2h 9m 2s)
I think pogoing is like the greatest thing you could ever.
(2h 9m 8s) Codey:
That’s.
(2h 9m 8s) Kelly:
I think, but I think that’s engrained in me from Hollow Night, because like, like you had to do like some crazy pog going in there without the bell.
(2h 9m 16s)
I think the bell changes everything for me, like, I think that gives me, So much more freedom to, like, make mistakes while I’m pogoing, I guess.
(2h 9m 17s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 9m 24s) Kelly:
So I think it like takes some of the pressure off.
(2h 9m 25s) Codey:
Yep.
(2h 9m 27s) Kelly:
But also, I don’t know.
(2h 9m 29s)
I love platforming.
(2h 9m 30s)
So, like, I just think it’s it’s like fun in a really sick way.
(2h 9m 34s) Codey:
Yeah, there’s there’s just some times in platforming where you need to just like step away because like your brain is not like doing the thing. Um…
(2h 9m 38s) Kelly:
Yeah, oh absolutely.
(2h 9m 41s)
Like, I will throw myself at a, um, area over and over again, but also at a certain point, I’m just like, I’m going to go check out something else because clearly this isn’t working out for me right now.
(2h 9m 47s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 9m 50s)
And then like the next time you go to that area, you just like one shot it.
(2h 9m 54s) Kelly:
Yeah, it’s it’s so easy.
(2h 9m 54s) Codey:
You’re like, what the heck?
(2h 9m 56s) Kelly:
It’s so easy.
(2h 9m 57s)
Um, I’m trying to think, there was like a fair amount of bosses I liked.
(2h 10m 1s)
I think some of them, I mean, they’re they’re hard.
(2h 10m 4s)
They’re all hard.
(2h 10m 5s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 10m 5s) Kelly:
You know?
(2h 10m 5s) Codey:
There’s not, this game does not pull punches.
(2h 10m 9s) Kelly:
Who is who is the one in The Fairfields, the giant mecca.
(2h 10m 15s)
I loved that one.
(2h 10m 16s)
That was the one in the hot lava area.
(2h 10m 20s) Codey:
Oh, and you like walk by him the 1st time?
(2h 10m 22s) Kelly:
Yes, and I nearly hit my pants the 1st time I walked by him because I was like, I have to run, like we’re running.
(2h 10m 27s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 10m 28s)
It’s so, I mean, it’s, it’s so fun that the, that they do this because like the 1st time you go through this area, like there’s this, there’s this thing in the background and you’re like, okay, clearly this is something that’s going to get me.
(2h 10m 29s) Kelly:
This is gonna set off something right now.
(2h 10m 34s)
Yeah.
(2h 10m 41s) Codey:
And like, I remember like 1st coming up and seeing it like peripherally and then being like, I’m going to go stock up on some stuff.
(2h 10m 41s) Kelly:
Yep.
(2h 10m 49s)
Yep, I was like, I’m gonna go save my game.
(2h 10m 51s) Codey:
Yeah, and then and then you go.
(2h 10m 51s) Kelly:
And make sure I hit a bench.
(2h 10m 54s) Codey:
And then you go through it and nothing happens and you’re like, oh, okay, but then when you try and leave.
(2h 10m 57s) Kelly:
Yep.
(2h 10m 57s)
Okay.
(2h 10m 59s)
Yeah.
(2h 11m 1s) Codey:
Oh, that was great.
(2h 11m 2s) Kelly:
Then it gets you.
(2h 11m 3s)
Um, I I can’t remember.
(2h 11m 7s)
I got killed somewhere and then I got thrown into the prison, which was, I thought, really fun.
(2h 11m 10s) Codey:
Yep.
(2h 11m 11s)
Yep Yep.
(2h 11m 12s) Kelly:
And also terrifying because it’s like you have this combination of like, 0 my god, where am I?
(2h 11m 18s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 11m 18s) Kelly:
This is a rogue light, so if I die, I’m going to lose a ton of stuff.
(2h 11m 22s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 11m 22s) Kelly:
Please show me a bench.
(2h 11m 24s)
You know what I mean?
(2h 11m 25s)
Like, I think that that pressure.
(2h 11m 27s)
It makes like something like getting work to a new place where you have no idea where you are, very scary, like much more scary.
(2h 11m 36s) Codey:
They, they also have benches. That are traps.
(2h 11m 37s) Kelly:
Um.
(2h 11m 41s)
Uh, the mimics, like not mimics, but yeah, like the trap benches, like, okay.
(2h 11m 45s)
Okay, like trust nothing.
(2h 11m 48s) Codey:
Like you get to a spot and you’re like, oh, thank goodness, there’s a bench and you sit and then it just like kills you.
(2h 11m 54s) Kelly:
I can’t even remember where that one was, but there is at least two, I think, and I remember the 1st one got me so good after that I was so cautious.
(2h 11m 58s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 12m 3s)
Yeah, like, they just, it really just makes you, you, it makes you check everywhere, everywhere, like, because there’s so many secret rooms and secret passages and stuff, so you’re always checking everything, but also then, like, you come upon something and you’re like, I don’t think, like, you go and you see this giant thing in the background, and you’re like, I don’t know if I can trust this.
(2h 12m 3s) Kelly:
Um.
(2h 12m 8s)
Mm.
(2h 12m 12s)
Oh my god.
(2h 12m 22s)
Yep.
(2h 12m 24s)
There’s been so many times where I found like with clearly a passage to a new area and I’m like, I don’t know if I want.
(2h 12m 32s)
I think like the 1st time I got it to Sinners Road.
(2h 12m 34s)
Like I was like, hmm, I don’t want to be here right now.
(2h 12m 34s) Codey:
Okay, yeah.
(2h 12m 38s)
Yeah.
(2h 12m 39s)
Well, especially because when you 1st get there, you, the 1st things you see are those, um, like possum thingies that like jump on you.
(2h 12m 46s) Kelly:
Oh, the the muckroaches?
(2h 12m 47s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 12m 48s) Kelly:
Yeah, those are horrendous.
(2h 12m 48s) Codey:
Um, they like jump on you and they can kind of like grab you and they do a ton of dance.
(2h 12m 54s)
Like, I think that was, that was an area where the previous area you were getting like one tick damage or something and then you get there and you’re suddenly getting 2 tick damage, like double damage and you’re like, what the heck?
(2h 12m 55s) Kelly:
Oh my god.
(2h 13m 3s)
Yep.
(2h 13m 4s)
And these things like chase you down like they’re hound dogs, like they get you.
(2h 13m 8s) Codey:
Yeah, yeah.
(2h 13m 9s)
And they’re not, like, you can’t really cheese them that much, like they’re…
(2h 13m 13s) Kelly:
No, you just kind of have to like, uh, like have a shred.
(2h 13m 17s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 13m 20s)
So.
(2h 13m 21s) Kelly:
Um.
(2h 13m 21s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 13m 22s)
I think Hunter’s March is also a really hard area.
(2h 13m 24s)
Like it’s a bunch of ant people.
(2h 13m 26s)
Um, like ant bosses and they were also really brutal.
(2h 13m 26s) Kelly:
Yes.
(2h 13m 31s)
They’re tough, yeah.
(2h 13m 31s) Codey:
Um…
(2h 13m 32s) Kelly:
Which I think like that area, though, is good for like, I think like they do a good job of like setting the areas up at the start, especially to help you.
(2h 13m 41s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 13m 41s) Kelly:
Gain confidence.
(2h 13m 43s) Codey:
Yes.
(2h 13m 43s) Kelly:
In like the skills you’ll need going forward.
(2h 13m 47s)
Unfortunately, like as hard as some of those areas are, because like, some of those ants, I was like, get away from it.
(2h 13m 47s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 13m 56s) Kelly:
I was like, I am jumping.
(2h 13m 57s)
I pokoed over so many of them.
(2h 13m 59s) Codey:
Yeah, there’s like some that you’re like, okay, I’ll take the time to like sit here and like fight you.
(2h 14m 3s)
And then there’s other ones where I’m like, goodbye.
(2h 14m 5s) Kelly:
Yep.
(2h 14m 5s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 14m 6s) Kelly:
Um, but yeah, I mean, I love the whole game.
(2h 14m 10s)
I love all the characters in it.
(2h 14m 11s)
Like, I think it’s,
(2h 14m 13s)
So fun.
(2h 14m 14s)
I want to play it forever, even though I stopped playing it because it takes a lot of energy.
(2h 14m 15s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 14m 18s) Kelly:
That’s the only reason I stopped playing.
(2h 14m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 14m 20s)
Um.
(2h 14m 21s) Kelly:
Um, but so what were your favourite parts so far?
(2h 14m 25s) Codey:
So I really love chakra.
(2h 14m 27s)
Um, I think she, so she is the equivalent of like the map guy.
(2h 14m 28s) Kelly:
I love her.
(2h 14m 33s) Codey:
So there’s a map bug in the 1st game.
(2h 14m 33s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 14m 35s) Codey:
Um, and in this game, that’s what she is.
(2h 14m 38s)
She’s trying to find her, I can’t remember the word that she uses, but like basically like her trainer or like her boss and her mentor and her people are like a warrior people.
(2h 14m 45s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 14m 46s)
Like, yeah.
(2h 14m 50s) Codey:
And, like, she is just a badass.
(2h 14m 56s)
Like she’s just really cool.
(2h 14m 58s) Kelly:
She’s so cool.
(2h 14m 59s)
Like corner first, so corner 1st the Mac guy in the 1st one.
(2h 15m 1s)
He’s such a nerd.
(2h 15m 2s) Codey:
Yeah, he’s a nerd.
(2h 15m 2s) Kelly:
Like, he is so clearly a nerd, but she’s like such a badass, like, adventuring fighting.
(2h 15m 10s) Codey:
Yeah, she’s like a warrior that is happens to be mapping it as she goes and she’ll share it with you because she, um, respects you.
(2h 15m 16s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 15m 20s) Codey:
game recognises game, basically.
(2h 15m 22s) Kelly:
Yeah, yeah.
(2h 15m 22s) Codey:
Um,
(2h 15m 23s) Kelly:
I think she’s supposed to be like a paper.
(2h 15m 27s) Codey:
That would make sense.
(2h 15m 29s) Kelly:
like the way her shape is also and like the colours, yeah.
(2h 15m 29s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 15m 31s)
That would make sense.
(2h 15m 32s)
So that’s she’s a character.
(2h 15m 34s)
I was, I spoke with one entomologist once that wanted to do a panel in New York City Comic-Con about the the bugs of silk song.
(2h 15m 46s)
Um, and he, we ended up not doing it, but like I was going to be on the panel as well. And we were talking about, we were talking about being, um, like dressing up as characters and I wanted to dress up as chakra.
(2h 15m 52s) Kelly:
Oh, that would have been.
(2h 15m 58s) Codey:
Like I had looked up some cosplays that people have.
(2h 15m 59s) Kelly:
Oh, that would have been sick.
(2h 16m 1s) Codey:
I might still do it eventually, but because it was really cool, but, um,
(2h 16m 6s) Kelly:
It’s like stuff like that has to be hard though, because it’s like, there’s clearly some bugs in this game that are based on real bugs and then there’s clearly, um, like I think most of the pilgrims are just…
(2h 16m 12s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 16m 16s) Kelly:
They’re just, they’re just bugs.
(2h 16m 17s) Codey:
They’re just, yeah, the amorphous word bug.
(2h 16m 21s)
Um, for sure.
(2h 16m 23s)
Uh, and then the, my other favourite is the Bell Beast.
(2h 16m 27s)
So.
(2h 16m 28s) Kelly:
Uh that’s my favourite also.
(2h 16m 29s) Codey:
Yeah, so she…
(2h 16m 30s) Kelly:
I think the 2 of them were so good.
(2h 16m 32s) Codey:
In the original game, there’s the, his name is the last stag, and he’s a stag beetle, and there’s these like kind of subway systems, basically, to get from point A to point B, and you can call him and he’ll he’ll take you there.
(2h 16m 39s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 16m 48s) Codey:
Um, and I always get a little emotional with his storyline because he’s, it’s, he’s like the last stag.
(2h 16m 57s)
But then at one point in the game, I think near the end, you come upon an area and there’s just like a bunch of dead stag beetles, but then there’s like an egg.
(2h 17m 6s)
And then the next time you, and the eggs been hatch, and the next time you see him, his name is the old stag, and it’s just like, screaming.
(2h 17m 6s) Kelly:
Yes, and the egg’s been hatched.
(2h 17m 12s)
Yes.
(2h 17m 14s)
Yeah.
(2h 17m 15s)
Oh my god.
(2h 17m 16s)
I think I cried when that happened.
(2h 17m 18s)
Like I, I love that.
(2h 17m 19s)
I love the old stag.
(2h 17m 21s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 17m 22s)
Uh, and so this, uh, the Bell Beast is this, this game’s, uh, last stag, where when you 1st encounter her, she, actually, she’s a boss, actually, like, she comes out and she’s, like, grumpy and she’s, you have to fight her and you basically fight her into not, not necessarily submission, but I think she, like, just realises that you don’t want to hurt.
(2h 17m 32s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 17m 46s)
Your friend?
(2h 17m 47s) Codey:
Yeah, that you don’t want to hurt her and like you’re just defending yourself.
(2h 17m 47s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(2h 17m 50s) Codey:
And then she becomes she becomes like your, your way to get through things, but like, you can interact with her.
(2h 18m)
I think they’ve, the developers have said that like hitting her with your sword is like petting her.
(2h 18m 5s)
Um,
(2h 18m 6s) Kelly:
Yeah.
(2h 18m 7s) Codey:
And then at one point in the game, you get your, you make your needle into, um, an instrument called the needle in.
(2h 18m 15s)
And if you play that around her, she starts like purring at you.
(2h 18m 15s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 18m 21s)
Mm-hmm.
(2h 18m 21s) Codey:
And it’s, she’s just so sweet.
(2h 18m 25s)
And then there is like a late game, really cute thing that happens, but I don’t want to spoil it.
(2h 18m 26s) Kelly:
He’s so cute.
(2h 18m 30s)
I don’t know if I reached that part yet, so.
(2h 18m 30s) Codey:
Um, But she is just so great.
(2h 18m 33s)
I have a tattoo of her like.
(2h 18m 36s) Kelly:
What do you, what bug do you…
(2h 18m 38s) Codey:
I mean, she’s like an isopod.
(2h 18m 40s) Kelly:
That’s okay, that’s what I also assumed.
(2h 18m 41s)
Like she clearly has like that isopod look.
(2h 18m 44s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 18m 44s) Kelly:
Going on.
(2h 18m 45s) Codey:
Um, I guess I have.
(2h 18m 46s) Kelly:
Um, every time I every time I see her, I have to jump across the bells on top.
(2h 18m 53s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 18m 54s) Kelly:
Like better.
(2h 18m 55s)
I can’t, like, I can’t not.
(2h 18m 58s) Codey:
just so good.
(2h 18m 58s)
Yeah, so she has too many legs to be an insect.
(2h 19m 2s)
So isopod is fine.
(2h 19m 4s)
Um, I wonder what, let me see if the trivia, there’s like trivia.
(2h 19m 10s)
Hitting the Bellevue is considered to be petting her.
(2h 19m 14s)
This also occasionally causes her to purr in response.
(2h 19m 16s)
Yeah, I don’t really see anything that’s like, here’s how, here’s what she’s supposed to be.
(2h 19m 23s)
Um, but I would probably just say ice pod.
(2h 19m 27s)
cutey patootie.
(2h 19m 29s) Kelly:
The…
(2h 19m 29s) Codey:
Oh, and she’s trapped in silk too, but she’s still, like, I think when you 1st find her, she’s trapped in silk and you like let her out and she’s and you’re like, I’m going to help you and you let her out and then she just starts attacking you.
(2h 19m 36s) Kelly:
Oh, okay.
(2h 19m 42s) Codey:
You’re like, what the?
(2h 19m 44s)
I just released you from a bunch of silk.
(2h 19m 47s)
But she was just scared.
(2h 19m 49s)
But.
(2h 19m 50s)
Yeah, I mean, I think that that’s the, that’s the, my overarching opinions of Sulk Song and without getting into like spoilers and stuff. And, um, I, I mean, I want to just, I kind of want to just start up a new game now that we’re done talking about this.
(2h 19m 58s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 20m 3s)
And literally, when you reached out to me, I was like, do I just start playing one?
(2h 20m 7s)
But I was, I was playing that other game and like I, I knew I couldn’t.
(2h 20m 11s)
I can’t play multiple games.
(2h 20m 12s)
I’m not capable of like that kind of commitment.
(2h 20m 14s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 20m 15s)
Yeah.
(2h 20m 15s) Kelly:
Um, but yes, I think you’ve, you’ve reinfected.
(2h 20m 21s) Codey:
I think I think we’ve done it to each other because this is this is like the bug is in me now.
(2h 20m 27s)
I want to play it again.
(2h 20m 29s)
And it’s like visiting old friends too.
(2h 20m 31s)
It’s like, I want to go back and interact with these characters and like see them again and maybe finish their stories this time.
(2h 20m 32s) Kelly:
Yep.
(2h 20m 36s)
Yep.
(2h 20m 39s) Codey:
Um, so we’ll definitely do that.
(2h 20m 42s)
Um, well, do you have anything that you would like to share with the audience, Kelly?
Outro
(2h 20m 49s) Kelly:
Um, no, I don’t really do anything online.
(2h 20m 52s) Codey:
Cool.
(2h 20m 53s)
Um, I mean, I’ll share that we’re about to live pretty close, so we cannot hang out.
(2h 20m 57s) Kelly:
Oh, yeah.
(2h 21m)
Yeah, we gotta meet up in the…
(2h 21m) Codey:
Pretty stoked about that.
(2h 21m 1s)
Um, pretty stoked about that.
(2h 21m 4s)
Um, I don’t really have anything to share either.
(2h 21m 6s)
You guys have heard us yap for a long time now, so I’ll stop.
(2h 21m 9s)
You can find the podcast on Tumblr and Blue Sky at THS Pod.
(2h 21m 15s)
You can go to our website, harvestseason.club, to access feedback and links and transcripts and the show notes so you can see some pictures of what a lace bug looks like.
(2h 21m 25s)
Um, and then, uh, you can access our Patreon at patreon.com slash GHS pod.
(2h 21m 31s)
And if you do so, you can get access to our Slack community, which I will post a photo of the Beatles stuck in the caddisfly.
(2h 21m 40s)
Um, thing into that and so maybe some other fun, fun pictures uh, from my personal collection.
(2h 21m 47s)
You also get access to the greenhouse episodes.
(2h 21m 50s)
We haven’t had greenhouses in a while, but Kev is rare and to record some.
(2h 21m 54s)
So I’m sure we will probably get some soon.
(2h 21m 58s)
Um, But yeah, thank you, Kelly, for joining me.
(2h 22m 2s) Kelly:
Oh, no, thank you.
(2h 22m 5s) Codey:
Thank you, Al, for.
(2h 22m 6s) Kelly:
Always loved her.
(2h 22m 7s) Codey:
Yeah, thank you, Alpha, editing this very long episode.
(2h 22m 12s)
And thank you, listeners, for listening, and until next time.
(2h 22m 17s)
Have a good harvest.
(2h 22m 19s)
Goodbye.
(2h 22m 22s) Theme Tune:
The harvest season is created by Al McKinley, with support from our patrons, including our pro farmers, Kevin, Stewart, and Elisa.
(2h 22m 31s)
Our art is done by Mike the Brave, and our music is done by Nick Burgess.
(2h 22m 36s)
Feel free to visit our website, harvestseason.club for show notes and links to things we discussed in this episode.
(2h 22m 52s) Codey:
And then we go to time dot is, and let me know.
(2h 22m 54s) Kelly:
Oh, this is new.
(2h 22m 55s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 22m 56s)
So we’re gonna clap on 30?
(2h 22m 59s)
Is that okay?
(2h 22m 59s)
Okay.
(2h 23m) Kelly:
Yep, okay.
(2h 23m 1s) Codey:
And we never hear each other clap.
(2h 23m 4s)
It’s very interesting.
(2h 23m 5s) Kelly:
You know, I was literally, I was like, uh, was that just me clapping?
(2h 23m 8s) Codey:
Nope.
(2h 23m 8s) Kelly:
That’s so funny.
(2h 23m 9s) Codey:
I don’t think I’ve ever heard unless we clap like out of sync.
(2h 23m 14s)
I have never heard the other person clap, and, but out…
(2h 23m 18s) Kelly:
Okay, well, I think that’s like a good thing, right?
(2h 23m 20s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 23m 20s) Kelly:
Like…
(2h 23m 21s) Codey:
Well, and I’ll try to explain it to me once and I just was, I, I, my brain went somewhere else.
(2h 23m 27s)
I don’t know.
(2h 23m 28s) Kelly:
Yeah, apparently my computer clock is 12nd ahead, so.
(2h 23m 32s) Codey:
Ooh, mine says I was perfectly on time, so.
(2h 23m 32s) Kelly:
Interesting too.
(2h 23m 36s)
Nice.
(2h 23m 37s)
How do you even fix that?
(2h 23m 38s)
Like, what do you, I thought my computer was synced.
(2h 23m 41s)
Like, what do you mean?
(2h 23m 42s) Codey:
I don’t know
(2h 23m 42s) Kelly:
Like, you know, like, I saw somebody on Discord who had like a mod that, like, let you see other people’s time.
(2h 23m 48s)
And it said their time was off by like 2 seconds and she was on her phone.
(2h 23m 49s) Codey:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 23m 52s) Kelly:
What do you mean your phone is off by 2 seconds?
(2h 23m 55s)
How do you even fix that?
(2h 23m 57s) Codey:
Yeah, I, I mean, we used, you used to be able to like reset that on old dumb phones.
(2h 24m 2s) Kelly:
Mm-hmm.
(2h 24m 4s) Codey:
Um, but I have no idea how to do it now.
(2h 24m 5s) Kelly:
Yeah, exactly.
(2h 24m 6s)
Like, like, that’s not even something I consider being able to do or like having an issue with because I thought that was all handled for us.
(2h 24m 13s) Codey:
Yeah.
(2h 24m 14s)
Yeah.
(2h 24m 16s)
I don’t know.
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