Therapy Session

Wed, Jun 17, 2026 Year 3, Autumn 24

Al and Chelsea talk about Find Your Words.

Timings

00:00:00: Theme Tune
00:00:30: Intro
00:03:46: What Have We Been Up To
00:18:26: Game News
00:31:29: New Games
00:36:51: Find Your Words
01:37:45: Outro

Find Your Words

Contact

Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot
Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/

Transcript

Theme Tune

Intro

(30s) Al:

Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season.

(34s)

My name is Al.

(35s) Chelsea:

And my name is Chelsea.

(36s) Al:

And we’re here today to talk about cottage core games.

(39s)

Woo.

(41s) Chelsea:

Woo-hoo.

(42s) Al:

Welcome, Chelsea.

(43s)

This is your 1st time on the podcast and with this, I get to check off another country off my list.

(50s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(51s) Al:

First Canadian, I think, I think 1st Canadian.

(51s) Chelsea:

Oh, 1st Canadian.

(55s) Al:

I was looking through my list, unless one of the people, unless one of the developers that I’ve interviewed was Canadian at some point, but I don’t think so.

(56s) Chelsea:

Yay.

(1m 2s)

Oh.

(1m 3s) Al:

I think, I think the closest we got was one of them was in, what’s it called? Seattle.

(1m 11s)

I think that’s the closest we’ve got close enough.

(1m 12s) Chelsea:

Close enough.

(1m 14s) Al:

I wouldn’t say that to them.

(1m 15s) Chelsea:

Close enough.

(1m 16s)

Uh, yeah, no.

(1m 18s) Al:

Anyway, welcome.

(1m 19s) Chelsea:

Thank you.

(1m 20s)

Despite being Canadian, it is 35 degrees right now.

(1m 24s) Al:

Oh goodness.

(1m 24s) Chelsea:

Um, yeah, so we either get -40 or +40.

(1m 25s) Al:

Horrifying.

(1m 30s)

It is, it is 14 here just now.

(1m 33s) Chelsea:

Oh, is it sunny?

(1m 35s)

Is it rain?

(1m 36s) Al:

Uh, it’s not been too bad.

(1m 37s)

It’s not been raining.

(1m 39s)

Um, but it’s not been like really sunny.

(1m 41s)

It’s kind of just The word that we would use in Scotland is Drech.

(1m 46s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1m 46s) Al:

It just means it’s kind of cloudy.

(1m 49s)

It’s just kind of a bit.

(1m 50s)

it’s fine.

(1m 51s)

It’s fine.

(1m 51s) Chelsea:

It’s fine.

(1m 52s)

Yeah, for indifferent.

(1m 53s) Al:

It’s three.

(1m 56s)

Um, So I got Chelsea on today to talk about a game that I’ve been, I’ve talked about a few times on the podcast and finally got the chance to play and that is Find Your Words.

(1m 57s) Chelsea:

Good.

(2m 8s) Al:

This is a game where you play a non-verbal character going to summer camp and learning how to use a, um, uh, picture exchange communication board.

(2m 22s)

And so I thought it would be good to 1st up, get another parent on the podcast to talk about that.

(2m 24s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(2m 29s) Al:

And it turns out there were other good reasons to get Chelsea on that I didn’t know about.

(2m 35s) Chelsea:

Oh yeah, surprise.

(2m 36s)

Um, yeah, so my daughter, when she was born, she had a bit of a speech disorder.

(2m 43s)

Um, we were told originally that she would never go to like a regular school.

(2m 47s)

She would never be able to have friends and pretty terrible thing to say.

(2m 50s)

Um, but then we found the right speech therapist that worked with her and she’s, you wouldn’t even be able to tell now, but we did have the augmentative communication book with her, um, when she was in kindergarten.

(3m)

And I personally think that this game, it should be mandatory for school boards, like for people that, you know, like, um, that may have students in their class that use it just to have a better understanding because I found the way that they did this game was incredible.

(3m 16s) Al:

Yeah, I’m I’m legitimately thinking whether I should be getting uh my one of my other child to play it because obviously I’ve talked.

(3m 24s)

I don’t know whether I’ve talked about it or not, but my eldest child is non-verbal.

(3m 28s)

And we can talk about the specifics of that in the thing, but yeah, as you say, I’m legitimately considering getting my verbal child to use it because it’s interesting.

(3m 28s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(3m 32s)

Yep.

(3m 37s) Al:

Yeah, we’ll get to that.

(3m 37s)

Well get to that.

(3m 38s) Chelsea:

Oh, sure, okay, fair enough, fair enough.

(3m 38s) Al:

Let not get too deep into it just now.

(3m 39s)

Let’s not get too deep into it just now.

(3m 40s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(3m 41s) Al:

We will talk about that after the news before the news.

What Have We Been Up To

(3m 46s) Al:

Chelsea, what have you been up to?

(3m 49s) Chelsea:

I have too many children to keep track of.

(3m 51s)

Um, so.

(3m 51s) Al:

That is your fault entirely.

(3m 54s) Chelsea:

That is my fault entirely, yes, it is.

(3m 54s) Al:

Well, well, you and your husband.

(3m 56s) Chelsea:

Well, it takes two.

(3m 58s) Al:

It does.

(3m 59s) Chelsea:

Um, yeah, so end of school year, we don’t end school until end of June here.

(4m 5s)

I know it’s earlier in some parts of the world.

(4m 7s)

Um,

(4m 8s) Al:

Now, it’s the end of June here as well.

(4m 8s) Chelsea:

Oh, good.

(4m 9s) Al:

We, I’m, yeah, I think this every summer.

(4m 13s)

Like, do American schools just go off for like 3 whole months?

(4m 17s) Chelsea:

It seems that way because I see people talking at like end of May and they’re already sick of their kids on summer vacation and I’m like, oh, we still have another month to go.

(4m 22s) Al:

Yeah.

(4m 23s)

But it’s madness.

(4m 23s) Chelsea:

Um.

(4m 25s) Al:

And we and we finish earlier than England.

(4m 27s)

England doesn’t finish till like the middle of July.

(4m 30s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(4m 30s) Al:

Yeah.

(4m 31s) Chelsea:

So do they start end of September?

(4m 32s) Al:

Uh, some yeah, sometime September, yeah.

(4m 35s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(4m 35s) Al:

I’m not sure when exactly.

(4m 36s) Chelsea:

All right.

(4m 37s)

Anyway, yeah, so my kids are all busy with their own activities and um, I’m basically the chauffeur that comes along for the ride.

(4m 44s)

But in my main, in my spare time.

(4m 46s)

I do like Pokemon, Zelda, Animal Crossing.

(4m 50s)

Um, yeah.

(4m 52s)

Hockey, because I’m Canadian.

(4m 54s)

It’s almost a Stanley Cup final game, so I’ve been busy with that.

(4m 57s) Al:

Oh, that reminds me.

(4m 58s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(4m 58s) Al:

That reminds me, I have a question, because I was talking to Ronan, my wife, and we were talking about hockey because when you say hockey, you mean the played on ice, right?

(5m 10s) Chelsea:

I saw.

(5m 10s) Al:

What would you call when it’s played in a field?

(5m 15s) Chelsea:

Uh, Field hockey?

(5m 17s) Al:

You’d call it field hockey and because we we flip those.

(5m 17s) Chelsea:

Yeah, yes.

(5m 19s)

Oh, really?

(5m 20s) Al:

So we would call field hockey.

(5m 21s)

we would call it hockey and ice hockey we would call ice hockey.

(5m 25s) Chelsea:

Oh, interesting.

(5m 25s) Al:

I just find it funny because I was talking about it and then Rona was like, wait, what do they call hockey then?

(5m 26s) Chelsea:

Yeah, I know we had.

(5m 31s) Al:

Like…

(5m 32s) Chelsea:

Yeah, no, we.

(5m 34s)

Default thing here is just hockey and I live in a pretty small town and like every child here plays hockey.

(5m 35s) Al:

Yeah.

(5m 40s)

Yeah.

(5m 40s) Chelsea:

So no one can make plans from July to April because everyone just has hockey tournaments everywhere.

(5m 47s)

But, uh, Yeah, so that’s what I’ve been.

(5m 48s) Al:

Fair enough.

(5m 51s) Chelsea:

That’s what I’ve been up to.

(5m 52s)

How about you?

(5m 53s) Al:

Uh, yeah, what have I been up to?

(5m 55s)

Well, played Find Your Words, obviously.

(5m 57s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(5m 58s)

Oh yes, and I did that.

(5m 58s) Al:

It wasn’t wasn’t too long to play, which was nice, but we’ll get into that.

(5m 59s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(6m 4s)

No?

(6m 4s) Al:

I’ve also watched the Among Us TV show.

(6m 8s)

I don’t know if you’re you’re aware of that.

(6m 8s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(6m 9s)

I was not.

(6m 10s) Al:

You’re aware of the game, presumably among us.

(6m 12s) Chelsea:

Yes, I’m aware of the game, yes.

(6m 13s) Al:

They shadow dropped the TV show last week at Summer Game Fest.

(6m 20s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(6m 20s) Al:

Um, I think we knew it was coming, but we didn’t know anything, and then there were just like, yeah, it’s it’s out now, it’s on Paramount Plus now.

(6m 21s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(6m 28s) Al:

So I watched that this week.

(6m 28s) Chelsea:

Oh, wow.

(6m 29s)

Okay.

(6m 29s)

I might have to sit down and watch.

(6m 31s) Al:

It’s actually pretty good.

(6m 33s)

I thought it was very fun.

(6m 34s)

It’s now, here’s the problem.

(6m 35s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(6m 38s) Al:

Is it suitable for kids?

(6m 40s)

Kind of?

(6m 42s)

It’s quite, it’s kind of graphic for younger kids.

(6m 46s) Chelsea:

Okay, okay.

(6m 47s)

I wasn’t sure if they were going to lean into the memes of it, or if they were just going to make it fine, family friendly.

(6m 50s) Al:

Yeah.

(6m 53s)

I mean, it is still animated and I guess it’s, I guess it’s not any more graphic than the game.

(6m 59s)

It just kind of feels a bit different when it’s a show.

(6m 59s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(7m 2s) Al:

I don’t know why.

(7m 3s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that’s fair.

(7m 4s) Al:

Um, but.

(7m 4s) Chelsea:

Hmm.

(7m 5s)

Well, I’m sure my kids are going to be all over that.

(7m 7s)

So.

(7m 9s)

How long is it?

(7m 9s) Al:

It was fun and so it is 8 episodes that are 15 minutes long each.

(7m 14s)

So not super long.

(7m 14s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(7m 15s)

No, that’s good.

(7m 16s) Al:

But it’s it’s fun.

(7m 18s)

It’s got a little murder mystery if you can figure out who the imposters are.

(7m 26s) Chelsea:

The imposter?

(7m 27s)

Oh, okay.

(7m 28s)

Did you get it right?

(7m 31s) Al:

I I guessed both of them right and then I 2nd guessed myself and went, no, no, they wouldn’t do that and changed my mind. And I was really annoyed because I was right.

(7m 41s) Chelsea:

Ah, no, ah.

(7m 42s) Al:

So, yeah, uh, Yes, well, well, they subverted it in not subverting it.

(7m 43s) Chelsea:

They subverted your expectations.

(7m 50s)

Okay.

(7m 50s) Al:

It’s hard to explain.

(7m 53s)

I can’t say too much without giving it away, but yeah, I was like, I think it’s going to be this, but no, no, they wouldn’t do that.

(7m 54s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(7m 55s)

No, no, no.

(7m 56s)

I watch it.

(7m 59s) Al:

That’s, yeah, but then they did.

(7m 59s) Chelsea:

There’s no way.

(8m 1s) Al:

So.

(8m 2s)

Oh, well.

(8m 2s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(8m 3s)

Oh well.

(8m 4s) Al:

But I know, I enjoyed it.

(8m 5s) Chelsea:

That’s good.

(8m 5s) Al:

And then the controversy of the week.

(8m 9s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(8m 9s) Al:

I started playing the Dragon Shelter demo.

(8m 13s)

Chelsea is saying yes, because I talked about this in the Slack already.

(8m 16s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(8m 17s) Al:

I was playing Dragon Shelter demo and I was kind of getting into it.

(8m 21s)

It was quite a little bit interesting.

(8m 23s)

kind of bits of it felt a little bit weird and stuff, but I was, I was, I was getting into it.

(8m 27s)

And then I noticed one of the character portraits looked very much like that kind of overemphasised Pixar look that a lot of AI generated stuff have.

(8m 38s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(8m 39s)

It has that like shine to it that you could just tell it was not man.

(8m 43s) Al:

Yeah, exactly.

(8m 44s)

And that suddenly got my suspicions up.

(8m 47s)

You see that all the time.

(8m 48s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(8m 49s) Al:

Like we were talking about this on the slack, like how you see it in like random posters and stuff like that.

(8m 53s)

Like people just, they put on.

(8m 55s)

the kind of standard AI generated character image.

(8m 58s)

Um, And I’ve done this several times this week where I go, oh, that definitely feels like AI generated.

(8m 59s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(9m 5s) Al:

So you zoom in to look at all the details and try and figure, you know, find the smoking gun, right?

(9m 9s)

Because some of it could be just be like, oh, that’s just a stylistic thing, right?

(9m 13s)

Like the 1st thing I noticed was like this character’s, um, uh, eyebrow was over the hair.

(9m 20s)

And I’m like, but that doesn’t necessarily mean any, it’s a kind of makes me think maybe, but it could just be a weird stylistic choice.

(9m 21s) Chelsea:

Ah.

(9m 27s) Al:

And then you notice that, um, the, the tool that she’s wearing is a bit, holding is a bit weird, like it’s kind of like both a, like a hole and a fork at the same time and you’re like, that doesn’t seem right.

(9m 39s)

But again, I guess it could just be a stylistic choice.

(9m 42s)

They’re doing some weird thing.

(9m 45s)

I’m not very far into this game.

(9m 46s)

Maybe there’s a point to it.

(9m 47s)

I don’t know.

(9m 48s)

And then someone on the slack pointed out that the tool goes through her neck.

(9m 53s) Chelsea:

Yeah, there’s your giveaway.

(9m 55s) Al:

Because I, because I did this, I did the same thing with the, I did the same thing with the poster for, uh, like there’s a talent show happening in my town. I was like, that looks really AI generated.

(9m 57s) Chelsea:

I know.

(9m 57s)

Put it all together.

(10m 5s) Al:

Let me zoom in and try and find the proof.

(10m 7s)

And I was like, oh, this looks a little bit weird.

(10m 9s)

All those fingers look very weird.

(10m 10s)

And then I noticed, oh, wait, one of the characters has 3 arms.

(10m 14s) Chelsea:

Oh, no.

(10m 16s)

You can always tell in the hands too.

(10m 18s) Al:

Yeah.

(10m 18s) Chelsea:

Um…

(10m 19s) Al:

So, yeah, um, that obviously.

(10m 23s)

Frustrated me a bit and uh, yeah, I don’t, I think the most frustrating thing about it is not necessarily that.

(10m 31s)

Like, I’m not,

(10m 32s)

I’m not a big fan of AI generated images.

(10m 35s)

I don’t think it’s necessarily enough in every case to mean that I’m never going to play a game.

(10m 41s)

I’m not saying it’s okay for indie devs to do that sort of thing, but I can understand why somebody would do that.

(10m 49s)

Again, I’m not getting into necessarily saying that I think it’s okay.

(10m 53s)

However, my big issue with it is that steam rules say you have to say whether there’s AI generated assets or not and they haven’t done that on steam. And that’s my like, okay, this is definitely not okay, right?

(11m 4s) Chelsea:

Oh okay.

(11m 8s) Al:

Like.

(11m 9s) Chelsea:

No, no, for sure.

(11m 11s)

Yeah, and maybe if it was for like a placeholder or something, but then you wouldn’t be, people wouldn’t be playing it.

(11m 15s) Al:

Yeah, well, I always feel like the placeholder one is such a, it feels like such an excuse because like a placeholder can literally be anything, right?

(11m 24s)

Like put a stick figure in as a placeholder, right?

(11m 26s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(11m 26s)

Honest to God I would rather play a game that has a stick figure than an AI generated image.

(11m 27s) Al:

Like you don’t need…

(11m 33s)

I just, I just feel like the, the, the, the, or we used AI placeholders.

(11m 37s)

It’s such a stupid thing because then you’re saying, well, 0 yeah, we used the environment destroying technology, but only for temporary things.

(11m 46s) Chelsea:

Just for a little bit.

(11m 47s)

No, we don’t need it after.

(11m 48s) Al:

That makes it worse.

(11m 51s) Chelsea:

That’s fair.

(11m 51s)

Okay, I revoke my argument.

(11m 53s) Al:

Right.

(11m 54s)

Like, if you’re going to do it in the permanent thing and be like, I think if you’re going to do AI generated images, go all in, make it a point, tell people you’re doing it, and then, and then you can, if you’re convinced that people don’t care, prove it, right?

(12m 5s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(12m 10s) Al:

Like say we’re using AI generated images and we’re doing it deliberately and then we’ll see what happens whether people continue to buy it or not, right?

(12m 17s)

I think this is the thing is like most of the time, I actually saw an interesting video about this.

(12m 18s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(12m 22s) Al:

Most people, when they get caught, if you will, with AI generated images.

(12m 28s)

I know that word is obviously whatever, but when people find AI generated images, they will always go something like, oh, it was just a placeholder and we forgot to fix that.

(12m 38s)

We changed that one.

(12m 40s) Chelsea:

easy way out.

(12m 40s) Al:

Yeah, it’s the easy way out and it’s like, well, okay, what if there’s other ones we’ve missed?

(12m 45s)

Right?

(12m 46s)

Like, how do we know?

(12m 46s) Chelsea:

Sure enough.

(12m 47s) Al:

Um, But like, just if you if you think it’s okay, just see it, right?

(12m 54s)

Like just say, yeah, no, we did it.

(12m 54s) Chelsea:

Stand behind it.

(12m 55s) Al:

We don’t care, right?

(12m 56s)

Like, yeah.

(12m 57s)

Do it or don’t do it.

(12m 59s)

And I just like the whole idea of the placeholder of things is it makes it harder to notice placeholder images when they’re realistic looking.

(13m 6s) Chelsea:

That’s true too.

(13m 6s) Al:

So if you really care about these images not getting out, you do a stupid, you go into paint, you draw a stick figure, you put that in.

(13m 13s)

That’s a placeholder image, right?

(13m 15s)

A realistic looking Over the top AI generated image is not a placeholder image.

(13m 21s)

And I cannot be convinced that anyone is legitimately wanting to use them as placeholder images.

(13m 26s) Chelsea:

It’s true.

(13m 27s) Al:

I just can’t.

(13m 28s) Chelsea:

You could just draw your little stick figure and then dump out 20 litres of water and you’ve done the same thing.

(13m 31s) Al:

Yeah.

(13m 34s)

Anyway, rant over.

(13m 36s)

Uh, I’m not going to tell you to not play the game.

(13m 39s)

I will tell you, they’re using AI generated images and they’re not telling you they’re doing that.

(13m 43s)

That’s what I’m.

(13m 44s) Chelsea:

Hmm.

(13m 44s)

Okay.

(13m 46s) Al:

So, sadly, that’s one episode I won’t be doing.

(13m 49s)

I’m not saying I won’t cover the game in the future.

(13m 51s)

I don’t know how I feel about that, but I’m certainly not covering the demo in this state. It’s in just now with…

(13m 57s) Chelsea:

No, so was it far into the game that you found it or?

(14m) Al:

I was maybe like an hour in, so it wasn’t too bad, but I think I think this is the thing is I…

(14m 3s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(14m 7s) Al:

It’s I don’t want to be one of those people that says, oh, well, everything has AI.

(14m 12s)

Everything’s going to end up having AI, so why bother fighting it, right?

(14m 15s)

And I’m also not this

(14m 16s) Chelsea:

No.

(14m 17s) Al:

also not the sort of person that says that all, um, all LLM based stuff is wrong.

(14m 23s)

I don’t believe that personally.

(14m 25s)

Uh, I definitely use some in my coding because it makes specific things that I do much quicker.

(14m 32s)

What I do have a problem with is the maximalizing, we’re going to use it for everything.

(14m 38s)

I don’t like it being used for art, just in general.

(14m 40s) Chelsea:

No.

(14m 40s) Al:

I think that that’s silly.

(14m 41s) Chelsea:

Exactly.

(14m 43s) Al:

And I think I can kind of see the argument of like, oh, I’m an indie developer, I can’t do everything and I don’t have the money to do these things.

(14m 45s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(14m 52s) Al:

I’m not saying it’s okay.

(14m 53s)

I can see the argument, but here’s a thing.

(14m 55s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(14m 56s) Al:

Why are you making a game? If you don’t want to make art.

(15m 1s) Chelsea:

Well, that’s it.

(15m 2s)

You’re supposed to use AI to do to regular things in your life so you can make the art yourself.

(15m 6s) Al:

Yeah.

(15m 6s) Chelsea:

Not use AI for the art.

(15m 8s) Al:

Yeah, yeah, it’s, it, it, I don’t, I don’t, if you, if you don’t want to make any of the art for a game.

(15m 9s) Chelsea:

No, that’s totally.

(15m 18s) Al:

You’re essentially just writing a physics engine.

(15m 22s)

And that’s the boring bit, right?

(15m 25s) Chelsea:

true, it’s true.

(15m 25s) Al:

Like, that’s the bit we pay other companies to do for us.

(15m 28s)

Like, I don’t know.

(15m 29s) Chelsea:

Exactly.

(15m 30s)

I think of the reason people even love art games.

(15m 30s) Al:

I don’t know what.

(15m 32s) Chelsea:

Sorry, I’m cutting you off here.

(15m 34s) Al:

No, no go for it.

(15m 34s) Chelsea:

The reason people love games so much.

(15m 37s)

It could have the most basic playing formula, but if you love the art, a lot of people will stick with that.

(15m 41s)

And I don’t find the opposite to be true.

(15m 43s)

Like if the game is fun or if the art, sorry, if the game is great, but the art looks bad, people may not be as interested.

(15m 51s) Al:

Yeah, yeah, I think I think it probably depends on who you are.

(15m 54s)

But yeah, like I just, I just feel like if you’re, if you don’t care about how your game looks.

(15m 59s)

I don’t understand why you’re making a game, right?

(16m 1s)

Like, there are, there are so many arguments for like, I don’t like doing this part of this job, and so therefore I will automate this part of this job.

(16m 2s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that’s.

(16m 8s) Al:

There are very many legitimate reasons for that in so many jobs, but like, what’s the core point of your job, right?

(16m 13s) Chelsea:

Mm-hmm.

(16m 17s) Al:

It’s like, it’s like with, with, let’s go back to my job programming, right?

(16m 21s)

Like I quite often use AI to like check that.

(16m 24s)

It’s really good at like finding, you know, tiny bugs that I’ve missed or it’s really good at like noticing the specific testing that I’ve missed out or it’s really good at me going, I have absolutely no idea what the issue is with here.

(16m 37s)

Can you, you know, see if you can figure out something I’m missing.

(16m 42s)

It’s really good for those things, things that humans are really bad at, right?

(16m 45s)

Like humans are really bad at tiny minute details.

(16m 49s)

Ironically, the thing it’s really bad at in images.

(16m 52s)

But,

(16m 53s) Chelsea:

Yeah, fair.

(16m 54s) Al:

But like, I don’t understand why the developers, right, I understand why normal people will be doing this because they want to make their own software and not do the coding.

(17m 5s)

But I don’t understand, and this is happening all over the industry and it’s driving me insane.

(17m 10s)

I don’t understand why developers are vibe coding, why they’re going, I don’t want to do the coding anymore.

(17m 15s)

I just want to talk to the computer and tell it what to do.

(17m 17s)

Your job is decoding.

(17m 18s) Chelsea:

Right.

(17m 21s)

Yep.

(17m 22s)

This is what you, yeah, exactly.

(17m 23s) Al:

Right?

(17m 24s) Chelsea:

So.

(17m 24s) Al:

Like, I, I, I, I can, it’s different if you’re talking about a societal level, right?

(17m 28s)

Like say, let’s talk about like self-driving cars.

(17m 31s)

I personally think the self-driving cars overall will be better in at some point, hopefully, than human drivers.

(17m 38s)

And I think that when we get to that point, we should probably stop driving as humans because they’ll be better than us and less people will die.

(17m 43s)

If I was a taxi driver, I wouldn’t be doing that myself.

(17m 44s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(17m 48s) Al:

Right?

(17m 48s) Chelsea:

Kick back and just join them on the ride.

(17m 52s) Al:

Exactly.

(17m 52s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(17m 52s) Al:

Like, there’s a massive difference there.

(17m 54s)

Like don’t don’t automate yourself out of the job.

(17m 57s) Chelsea:

Don’t make yourself obsolete.

(18m 1s) Al:

It’s just, it’s absolutely bizarre to me.

(18m 2s)

Like, I want to make a game, but I don’t want to make any art.

(18m 5s)

I don’t know why you’re making the game.

(18m 7s) Chelsea:

And you think about it too, when people start with, if they have, like, an idea for a game in their head, the 1st thing they want to do, typically, from what I’ve seen is they want to make the art.

(18m 15s)

They want to draw out their characters.

(18m 16s)

And then they think of the engine later.

(18m 17s) Al:

Yeah, and Yeah, absolutely.

(18m 19s) Chelsea:

Oh man.

(18m 21s)

Oh, dear.

(18m 21s) Al:

Anyway.

(18m 21s)

There we go.

(18m 23s)

That’s our AI rant overdone for this episode.

(18m 25s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(18m 26s) Al:

Let’s talk about some bear things.

Game News

(18m 28s) Al:

Let’s jump into the news.

(18m 29s)

So we have a few more releases.

(18m 29s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(18m 31s) Al:

I think maybe a couple of these have been some game stuff that either I missed or was announced afterwards.

(18m 37s)

Um, but uh, let’s start off with Dangie Days, um, have announced that they’re releasing in October.

Danchi Days

(18m 44s) Al:

So we don’t have an exact release date for this one yet, but we do now have a month.

(18m 48s) Chelsea:

Well, better than some of them that give you a year.

(18m 54s) Al:

Yeah, let’s see what actually happens.

(18m 57s)

The ranchers have announced that their early access is coming out on the 30th of July.

(19m 5s)

Uh, I feel like both of these games I’m going to end up playing at some point, but when I don’t know.

(19m 9s)

It’s always my problem is trying to fit them all in.

(19m 10s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(19m 13s)

Put them in.

Loftia

(19m 13s) Al:

Uh, Loftier.

(19m 15s)

I have announced that their early access is coming in fall 2026.

(19m 20s)

whatever that means.

(19m 22s) Chelsea:

Whatever that means.

(19m 24s) Al:

Because, I mean, from my understanding, that could mean any time from end of August to December.

(19m 32s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(19m 32s) Al:

It’s basically like the 2nd half of the year.

(19m 35s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(19m 36s)

Uh.

(19m 37s)

Hopefully they say something.

(19m 39s) Al:

I always find these like release windows funny.

(19m 42s)

Like they’re like, I’m not happy enough that I’m going to release on a date, but I will tell you a season. And you’re like, okay.

(19m 49s) Chelsea:

Yeah, we’ll see what the vibes are like around this week and see.

(19m 51s) Al:

Yeah.

(19m 53s) Chelsea:

See you for feeling it.

(19m 54s) Al:

I wonder whether it’s one of these like they actually want to do it in November, so they’re waiting to see whether GTA comes out or not.

(20m) Chelsea:

I was gonna say maybe for Zelda, well, maybe not for Zelda, but for, yeah, GTA.

(20m 5s)

See when that comes out and give it some hype and then let you guys come in after.

(20m 9s)

Or before.

(20m 9s) Al:

Still almost nothing is coming out in November.

(20m 12s) Chelsea:

No, I have a hope that Ocarina time does come out in November.

(20m 16s) Al:

I feel like I feel like that’s the only reason they haven’t told us the date yet.

(20m 16s) Chelsea:

But we’ll see.

(20m 20s)

They’re coordinating in the back with the other.

(20m 22s) Al:

No, they’re just, no, they’re just waiting for GTA to delay.

(20m 25s)

Like we all know it’s going to happen again.

(20m 26s)

So they’re just waiting for it and then they’ll announce it’s coming out in November.

(20m 28s) Chelsea:

Oh man.

(20m 28s)

Yeah.

(20m 29s) Al:

This is the funniest thing to me about it all, is that everyone’s avoiding November, and it’s not the game’s not coming out in November.

(20m 36s) Chelsea:

No.

(20m 36s) Al:

Convinced all that.

(20m 38s)

The Dave the diver in the jungle DLC has a date as well that is coming out on the 18th of June, which is Thursday.

Dave The Diver

(20m 46s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that looks fun.

(20m 49s) Al:

So it’s the day after this episode comes out.

(20m 50s)

Have you played the game?

(20m 52s) Chelsea:

I’ve seen people play it.

(20m 53s)

Um, it does look like a good time.

(20m 56s) Al:

It’s a great game.

(20m 57s)

I love it.

(20m 58s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(20m 58s) Al:

It’s so good.

(20m 59s)

I think I will be buying.

(21m 3s)

He’s a really good kid.

(21m 5s) Chelsea:

Good.

(21m 5s)

No, I’m more of a, I have to be a portable gamer.

(21m 7s)

With kids, so I bring my switch around, but uh, maybe one day I’ll get a steamed duck.

(21m 13s) Al:

I’m pretty sure Dave the Diver’s on Switch.

(21m 15s) Chelsea:

Yeah?

(21m 16s)

Oh, that’d be good.

(21m 17s) Al:

Yep, it is.

Farming Camp

(21m 18s) Al:

Farming camp.

(21m 19s)

Now this is a funny one.

(21m 20s)

They officially don’t have a release date.

(21m 24s)

However, they announced their physical edition, and on Amazon, it says it’s releasing on the 28th of September.

(21m 32s) Chelsea:

What?

(21m 32s) Al:

No, 24th of September.

(21m 34s)

So that’s not the usual like, oh, it says the 31st of December, right?

(21m 35s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(21m 39s) Al:

which is kind of a standard thing that Amazon do for when they don’t know some when something’s coming out.

(21m 45s)

So it’s not that.

(21m 45s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(21m 46s) Al:

So is this the actual release date and they’ve just like accidentally announced it through that?

(21m 51s) Chelsea:

Oh, that’s like when Target releases vinyl dates by accident.

(21m 55s) Al:

Yeah, weird.

(21m 55s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(21m 57s) Al:

And I think the weirder thing is it’s been up for a couple of days and they’ve still not said anything.

(22m 1s)

Why are you not just announcing it now?

(22m 2s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(22m 3s)

Yeah, I don’t know.

Super Farming Boy

(22m 6s) Al:

Super farming boy have announced that they, oh, well, they’ve not announced anything.

(22m 10s)

They are just out on switch now.

(22m 11s) Chelsea:

Just out on switch now.

(22m 12s) Al:

So if you’re waiting for this game to be on Switch, now’s your chance.

(22m 16s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(22m 17s)

Have you played this one?

(22m 19s) Al:

I haven’t, actually, no.

(22m 20s)

I think it would stress me out.

(22m 23s)

It’s very fast-paced game.

(22m 25s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(22m 26s) Al:

And I can’t decide whether I will like it or not.

(22m 29s) Chelsea:

Uh, it’s like when you see people playing, um, I don’t know if this is normal, but when my husband Pat plays Harvest Moon.

(22m 35s)

It’s supposed to be a nice cosy, quiet game, and he runs around like breaking a sweat all day, like stressed out.

(22m 42s)

He makes maps of crops on a piece of paper and like, this is supposed to be fun.

(22m 45s) Al:

Yeah.

(22m 46s)

Yeah, there, there, there are 22 ways to play those games.

(22m 46s) Chelsea:

What are you doing?

(22m 50s)

Yeah.

(22m 50s) Al:

That is one way and the other is, ah, I’ll get to it eventually.

(22m 54s)

Like, and that’s generally me.

(22m 54s) Chelsea:

Yep. Yep.

(22m 56s) Al:

I do think that I think if you’re trying to do something specific with it.

(23m)

Like if you enjoy the challenge of trying to do something efficiently, then that is one way to play things.

(23m 6s)

But I also think that people unnecessarily stress themselves out about farming games and they’re like, oh, there’s too much to do.

(23m 10s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(23m 12s) Al:

I don’t know what to do.

(23m 13s)

And the answer is, you don’t need to do it all now.

(23m 15s)

You can do it later.

(23m 17s) Chelsea:

See, that’s why I haven’t played Stardew Valley.

(23m 19s)

I have it on like 3 different things and I have not touched it because and I wish I did because it looks amazing.

(23m 23s) Al:

I’ll say, on.

(23m 24s)

So what you need to do, what you need to do, Chelsea, load up the game and decide one thing you’re going to do.

(23m 30s)

Probably for your 1st one, you should probably focus on the farming, because that’s what it’s, you know, the core thing.

(23m 31s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(23m 36s) Al:

Just start it up.

(23m 37s)

Just start farming.

(23m 38s)

Just see how it happens.

(23m 40s)

And then as you’re playing the game, you will naturally find other things and be like, oh, I’m interested in that now and you’ll do that.

(23m 45s)

As you get more and more of the game, you will get more and more help with different things, meaning that the things you start off doing, take less time, and then you have more time in the day to do other things, and then you’ll be expanding yourself out more.

(23m 46s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(23m 59s) Al:

And that’s def… I personally think that’s a much better way to play because it’s much less stressful.

(24m) Chelsea:

I’m gonna have to just take the plunge.

(24m 5s) Al:

Well, don’t get me wrong, I’ve played the stressful version as well, deliberately.

(24m 9s) Chelsea:

You’ve you’ve optimised to our new value.

(24m 10s) Al:

Oh, absolutely.

(24m 12s)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(24m 13s)

I had a spreadsheet.

(24m 15s) Chelsea:

Oh, man.

(24m 16s) Al:

All right, the big news.

(24m 17s) Chelsea:

Yes.

Pokopia

(24m 18s) Al:

Pocopia have announced the DLC.

(24m 20s) Chelsea:

Woohoo.

(24m 21s) Al:

So the DLC is spread out into 3 different updates.

(24m 26s)

There’s one in August called Bubbly Basin, which looks like it’s the flooded Celadon area, possibly.

(24m 35s)

may have been one of the things in the leak proving that the leak is true.

(24m 44s)

Then in late 2026, there’s going to be another update with additional new features.

(24m 49s)

Oh, I should note the bubbly basin comes with being able to go underwater.

(24m 50s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(24m 53s) Al:

And then in 2027, there’s an additional new town.

(24m 55s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(25m)

Any idea what that one could be?

(25m 1s) Al:

I mean, I have ideas based on leaks, but I… The int- so, well, so the interesting thing is, the leaks had more than just two.

(25m 4s) Chelsea:

Oh, okay.

(25m 5s)

Tell me after the episode.

(25m 11s) Al:

So the question is, have they cut some of it?

(25m 12s) Chelsea:

Hello.

(25m 14s) Al:

Are they going into have another DLC after this or what?

(25m 21s)

Like, because the leak is quite old.

(25m 22s)

It was from the the giggle leak like 4 years ago or something.

(25m 27s)

And there were clearly some things that had changed, um, because like veridian was originally meant to be an area and it looks like they combined the veridian and uh, what’s it called?

(25m 27s) Chelsea:

Oh my god.

(25m 38s) Al:

Rock area, Brockstown.

(25m 40s)

What’ it called?

(25m 41s)

Pewter city, yeah.

(25m 41s) Chelsea:

Oh, Pewter City?

(25m 43s) Al:

It looks like they combined those 2 into one.

(25m 44s)

So it’s possible that they’ve kind of done something else and changed how it is, but I’m not, I’m not sure it’s hard to know.

(25m 50s)

If it is only the only one coming, I am pretty certain I know what area it will be.

(25m 56s)

I’ll tell you after the podcast, but we’ll have to see whether or not.

(25m 56s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(25m 57s)

Okay.

(25m 59s)

This game seems big enough to me that they’d probably want to do like different biomes and add to the map and have more than one DLC, in my opinion.

(26m 8s) Al:

Yeah, I don’t, it’s an interesting question because, I mean, Pokemon haven’t so far done our like 2 expansions, right?

(26m 16s)

They’ve done a, here’s an expansion and it’s 3 parts like they’re doing here, but they’ve never done and then we’re going to do another expansion.

(26m 24s)

That would be a new thing for them.

(26m 25s) Chelsea:

Hmm.

(26m 27s)

Yeah.

(26m 27s) Al:

But we also have 2 free updates.

(26m 30s)

So one is that you with the August 2026 bubbly basin going underwater, you will be able to go underwater in the free in the game as a free update.

(26m 31s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(26m 41s) Al:

You just can’t get to the new area.

(26m 43s)

So that, it’s nice that they give you that feature, right?

(26m 44s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(26m 46s) Al:

So they’re adding in the new feature even if you’re not getting the area.

(26m 49s) Chelsea:

Yeah, no, that’s good.

(26m 50s)

I live in the fine print.

(26m 52s)

It’s like must have surf ability or whatever.

(26m 54s)

That disclose what you need to get to the area.

(26m 55s) Al:

Yeah.

(26m 58s)

Um, yeah, oh, interesting.

(27m 1s)

Okay.

(27m 2s)

I’d miss that.

(27m 3s) Chelsea:

Is that pretty early on in the in the game to get the underwater?

(27m 5s) Al:

Uh, it depends how you, there’s a branching path quite early on.

(27m 11s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(27m 11s) Al:

So it depends which part you do.

(27m 14s)

Um, but it’s not.

(27m 15s)

Yeah, it’s certainly not super long into the game.

(27m 18s)

Um, and there’s also an update that’s gone live like a couple of days ago.

(27m 23s)

improves the Pokemon conversations.

(27m 26s)

Also…

(27m 27s) Chelsea:

It’s not just, I throw it up.

(27m 29s) Al:

Well, I’m sorry, that is perfect conversation.

(27m 32s) Chelsea:

That’s true.

(27m 32s) Al:

I don’t know what the problem there is.

(27m 34s) Chelsea:

I don’t need to you don’t need to improve perfection.

(27m 36s) Al:

Look, if you’re going to complain about some of the conversation, at least choose a bad one.

(27m 40s) Chelsea:

Oh, right.

(27m 43s) Al:

Pokemon accompanying ditto will now avoid the placement preview area when objects are being placed, so no more being annoyed by trying to put something down.

(27m 50s)

There’s a Pokemon there.

(27m 51s)

I have done that many a time.

(27m 52s) Chelsea:

Yeah, get out of the frame

(27m 54s) Al:

Um, a limb, I think that very, I suspect very few people will actually encounter, but the people who encounter it will be very happy about this update, which is increased the placement limit for items that use electricity from 512 to 1024.

(28m 11s)

So if you place a lot of items that use electricity, you’ve got double now.

(28m 11s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(28m 17s)

What?

(28m 17s) Al:

I certainly didn’t hit this limit.

(28m 20s) Chelsea:

No.

(28m 20s) Al:

Because that’s a lot of items.

(28m 23s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(28m 24s) Al:

There’s lots of other small things as well, but the other thing that I felt we should talk about is the laser sensor item now. Displays is detection range when being placed.

(28m 24s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(28m 33s) Al:

So that is handy for all your automation purposes.

(28m 34s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(28m 37s) Al:

So you’ve not played this game yet.

(28m 38s) Chelsea:

Hmm.

(28m 39s) Al:

either.

(28m 41s) Chelsea:

I do not have a switch to.

(28m 42s)

However, it’s on, it’s on, it’s on the list of things to purchase.

(28m 46s)

Uh, GoFundMe for a Switch 2.

(28m 47s) Al:

Goodness sake.

(28m 50s) Chelsea:

Okay. No, I’m sure it’ll be a summer purchase for sure.

(28m 55s) Al:

Well, look, the game is good. Now it’ll be good in a few years.

(29m 1s) Chelsea:

Exactly.

(29m 2s)

Maybe there’ll be a Zelda Akarina time edition.

(29m 5s)

Hmm?

(29m 6s) Al:

Yeah, oh, so there’s an interesting question.

(29m 6s) Chelsea:

Never know.

(29m 9s) Al:

I would bet now that they’re not going to do them because I think we would have seen.

(29m 15s)

It been a year now.

(29m 16s)

So we’re just doing been out for a year.

(29m 18s)

I feel like we would know if they were going to be doing it.

(29m 22s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that’s fair.

(29m 23s)

Well, I’ll bring my hopes down a little bit then.

(29m 26s) Al:

I mean, it’s the fact that they’ve brought out 3 types of 3 different designs of joy cons now and they’re all just slightly different colours on the edge.

(29m 32s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(29m 35s) Al:

Right?

(29m 37s) Chelsea:

Yeah, yeah.

(29m 37s) Al:

Like don’t get me wrong.

(29m 39s)

I have bought the other joycons.

(29m 41s) Chelsea:

Yes, you have.

(29m 41s) Al:

Of course I have, but that’s not the point.

(29m 42s) Chelsea:

Yes, yes.

(29m 44s) Al:

I can also be I can also wish for better colour changes.

(29m 44s) Chelsea:

Is that the point?

(29m 48s)

That’s true.

(29m 49s) Al:

And we have one more update, which is cosy caravan, have released their one.

Cozy Caravan

(29m 53s) Al:

4 update, which is out now, and it gives us the new characters of Rat and Platypus.

(30m) Chelsea:

This looks like a fun game.

(30m 2s)

Have you played this one?

(30m 4s) Al:

I haven’t played this one because there’s too many games to play.

(30m 7s) Chelsea:

There’s too many games to play.

(30m 10s) Al:

Um, Nothing about this one has ever really grabbed me and made me decide.

(30m 15s)

I want to play it, but it does have very positive reviews.

(30m 18s)

It looks fine, don’t get me wrong.

(30m 18s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(30m 20s) Al:

I’m not saying it looks bad.

(30m 22s)

It just takes a lot…

(30m 22s) Chelsea:

No AI platypus.

(30m 25s) Al:

No, yeah, bloodbus.

(30m 27s)

Um, I just, I just not sure what the, the, oh, it’s got a, axel lock.

(30m 36s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(30m 37s) Al:

I just don’t know what it’s trying to sell me.

(30m 42s)

you know, like what’s its, what’s his unique gameplay.

(30m 47s) Chelsea:

Yeah, because you could be a rat and a platypus.

(30m 50s) Al:

Yeah, I mean, I’ll be honest with you.

(30m 52s)

Right, not selling me on anything there.

(30m 55s)

Platypus.

(30m 55s) Chelsea:

Baby potypus.

(30m 59s) Al:

Maybe.

(31m) Chelsea:

Maybe.

(31m 2s) Al:

We’ll see.

(31m 2s)

Part of the problem as well is, especially for like games like this, sometimes if you miss the release window, that’s it, you’re never going to get, you’re never going to play it.

(31m 14s) Chelsea:

Okay, yeah, once the, the community is established, the hype is established.

(31m 18s)

You don’t want to like join it.

(31m 18s) Al:

Yeah.

(31m 19s)

Yeah.

(31m 20s)

But as I just said, if it’s good now, it’ll be good in a couple of years.

(31m 21s) Chelsea:

That’s kind of how I do about this.

(31m 25s)

Well, that’s fair.

(31m 27s) Al:

But then there’ll be new games as well.

(31m 28s)

Speaking of new games.

(31m 28s) Chelsea:

I’ve never catching up.

New Games

(31m 31s) Chelsea:

Yeah, maybe.

(31m 31s) Al:

We’ve got 3 new games to talk about.

(31m 33s)

First up, One Piece Grand Gourmet.

One Piece: Grand Gourmet

(31m 37s) Al:

So for some reason, this is a cooking management sim for one piece.

(31m 44s)

Hop aboard a delectable management sim in the world of one piece, work alongside the straw hatch crew to build the greatest floating restaurant of the seas, collect ingredients, dream up dishes, and decorate to have familiar faces lining up for more.

(31m 59s) Chelsea:

This game looks like it’s gonna stress me out.

(32m 2s) Al:

Yeah.

(32m 2s) Chelsea:

Any cooking games, but the art was cool.

(32m 7s) Al:

Yeah, it’s, I mean, it looks, I, okay, so I’m not big into management games just in general, so I’m probably not going to play this game, but I think I could see why people would enjoy it, and I think if you like managing games and you like one piece, absolutely I see why this would be fun.

(32m 22s) Chelsea:

Cannot ask for a better combo if that’s what.

(32m 27s) Al:

That is coming out on the 22nd of August, and it is on Steam and Switch, and I’m guessing the other consoles, but I didn’t act.

(32m 36s) Chelsea:

Oh, was it August?

(32m 37s)

I thought it was October.

(32m 38s)

Maybe I have it wrong.

(32m 39s) Al:

I said October, you misheard me.

(32m 42s)

I definitely, definitely didn’t say the wrong thing.

(32m 45s) Chelsea:

But, Nope.

(32m 47s)

Well, that’s oh, that’s a good time of year for a game.

(32m 49s) Al:

Uh yes.

(32m 50s) Chelsea:

I don’t know, I don’t know if the Grand Theft Auto can compete with that.

(32m 55s) Al:

Look, I think if you’re going to be a game releasing around that time, be a completely different time.

(33m 1s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(33m 2s) Al:

Oh, it’s not.

(33m 4s)

It’s not PS5.

(33m 5s)

It is just PC Switch, Switch 2, and mobile.

(33m 12s) Chelsea:

Mobile.

(33m 13s) Al:

iOS and Android.

(33m 14s)

That might be the best way to play this game, I think, actually.

(33m 20s) Chelsea:

I think so too.

(33m 20s)

Pick up and go.

Everbloom

(33m 22s) Al:

Next we have Everbloom.

(33m 24s)

Everbloom is a cute and cosy social farming sim set in a world of whimsy.

(33m 29s)

Grow buckets of popcorn right on the plant and make chocolate milk by feeding your cows candy bars.

(33m 35s)

Grow, care, build, decorate, and explore the world of Everbloom solo are with your friends.

(33m 40s)

I, I, so, I mean, one of the things that I get really annoyed about in this podcast is people calling their games cute and cosy, you don’t get to decide that.

(33m 41s) Chelsea:

Sold.

(33m 51s) Al:

That’s other people’s other people, whether they agree with that or not.

(33m 54s)

Um, I feel like I’m not trying to say anything about the game itself.

(33m 55s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(33m 59s) Al:

I’m not accusing it of anything, but do you not feel like that description feels like just an AI generated list of descriptions of a theoretical game.

(34m 11s) Chelsea:

A little.

(34m 12s)

Oh, no.

(34m 12s) Al:

Like, ooh, wouldn’t it be funny if you can grow popcorn on a tree?

(34m 13s) Chelsea:

A little bit.

(34m 17s) Al:

Okay.

(34m 18s) Chelsea:

And the way every kid thought the chocolate milk was made.

(34m 22s) Al:

Yeah.

(34m 22s) Chelsea:

Well, I guess we thought it was brown cows, but I mean, if you eat the candy and chocolate, there you go.

(34m 22s) Al:

Yeah.

(34m 27s) Chelsea:

But yeah, I think you’re right.

(34m 28s) Al:

It looks fine.

(34m 29s) Chelsea:

People like self declare, we are cute and we are cosy.

(34m 36s)

But I think, yes, I will be playing this one.

(34m 39s) Al:

It looks fine.

(34m 40s)

There you go.

(34m 41s)

That’s, that’s, that’s the limit of my thoughts on this game just now.

(34m 46s) Chelsea:

It looks fine.

(34m 46s) Al:

It looks fine.

(34m 47s)

Again, similar to cosy caravan.

(34m 50s)

don’t I don’t hate anything about this.

(34m 54s) Chelsea:

But nothing’s sticking out really.

(34m 55s) Al:

Yeah, why am I playing this instead of anything else?

(34m 58s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that was.

(35m) Al:

Like the world is full of cute and cosy farming Sims.

(35m 3s)

It’s kind of their thing.

(35m 5s) Chelsea:

I find so many games that have like ever and dream cosy, all these hype words in them.

(35m 13s)

Did you ever play Ever Dream Valley?

(35m 14s) Al:

Yeah, and… I did not actually.

(35m 18s)

You know, they have a sequel, Everdream Village.

(35m 22s) Chelsea:

Oh, village.

(35m 24s) Al:

Yeah, uh, yeah, that this, this, always a, and Bloom, I think, is quite common one as well.

(35m 30s)

I can’t think of any other…

(35m 30s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(35m 34s) Al:

At least it’s not blank, blank, blank, like the Stardew Valley, which a lot of games have done, like, yeah. that’s a common like, yeah, yeah, exactly.

(35m 39s) Chelsea:

Stardew.

(35m 42s)

Dream Light Valley.

Beastro

(35m 48s) Al:

And our final new game is Bistro.

(35m 50s)

First up, great name.

(35m 50s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(35m 52s) Al:

Excellent.

(35m 52s)

Love it.

(35m 53s) Chelsea:

Oh, I love that.

(35m 53s) Al:

If you’re if you’re not looking at this and you’re just hearing to us, the spelling is B-E-A-S-T-R-O, as in beast, not B-I-S-T-R-O, but bistro is a cosy culinary adventure where the fate of the world rests on what’s for dinner, farm and gather fresh ingredients, tackle cooking mini games, and create tasty recipes to fuel the caretakers for deck building battles as they seek to save the world.

(36m 20s)

So I love.

(36m 22s)

Yeah, I love the name.

(36m 22s)

So many times I’ll complain about names.

(36m 23s) Chelsea:

That is.

(36m 24s) Al:

This is…

(36m 24s) Chelsea:

That is a good name.

(36m 27s) Al:

Um, I’m not sure I ever considered a deck building cooking game.

(36m 36s) Chelsea:

Oh, yeah, it’s an interesting combination.

(36m 37s)

I like that though.

(36m 39s) Al:

It could be good.

(36m 40s) Chelsea:

Well, it’s out now.

(36m 41s)

So you can try it out.

(36m 42s) Al:

It is Ono.

(36m 43s)

It came out on the 11th of June.

(36m 46s)

All right, that’s the news.

(36m 49s)

Woo!

(36m 50s)

Okay, we’re going to talk about find your words.

Find Your Words

(36m 53s) Al:

And I’m just going to say this now.

(36m 56s)

It’s very possible that this section gets emotional.

(36m 59s)

Um, so if you’re not, if you’re not in the place emotionally where you can listen to 2 parents crying about their children.

(37m 1s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(37m 9s) Al:

Feel free to leave.

(37m 9s) Chelsea:

Oh no.

(37m 10s) Al:

You don’t have to stay here.

(37m 13s) Chelsea:

We will not be offended.

(37m 15s) Al:

Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s, I mean, I don’t know for you, but for me, this is definitely going to be bringing up some things and I have, I have talked to Rona to make sure that she’s okay with me talking very openly about this because I don’t think I could talk about this game without talking about, you know, my real world experience.

(37m 22s) Chelsea:

Oh, for sure.

(37m 37s)

Of course.

(37m 38s) Al:

So, let’s start off with the game before we get into the, the, the personal stuff.

(37m 45s)

So as I mentioned, you are a non-verbal child, you rock up at camp with your parent and you get stuck in with camp, you get given a communications board, and a few symbols, and then you spend the time walking around, gathering more symbols, talking to people and playing games.

(37m 45s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(38m 8s) Al:

that about a fair description of it?

(38m 9s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(38m 9s)

That is yep, you got it.

(38m 12s) Al:

It’s also a very short game.

(38m 15s)

Um, it takes um, what, maybe an hour, maybe 2 hours if you’re playing it slowly.

(38m 15s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(38m 20s)

Yeah, I think I was like around 90 minutes.

(38m 22s) Al:

Yeah.

(38m 22s) Chelsea:

With interruption.

(38m 23s) Al:

Yeah, well, yes, but that’s the problem is that’s how I don’t know how long I spent because I, I, I wasn’t playing it in one session.

(38m 31s)

And there’s a number of different games that you play with different characters.

(38m 31s) Chelsea:

No.

(38m 37s) Al:

One thing, just I’m just going to start saying things and feel free to respond or bring up other things.

(38m 45s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(38m 45s) Al:

That’s just, that’s a podcast.

(38m 46s) Chelsea:

That’s what we’re doing.

(38m 46s) Al:

I just described a podcast.

(38m 48s) Chelsea:

We’re just not doing it.

(38m 48s) Al:

One thing that I thought was very interesting is that you’re not the only non-verbal character here as well.

(38m 56s) Chelsea:

Yeah, no, it was great to see like a whole variety of different abilities.

(39m 2s) Al:

Um, I just, yeah, because I think one of the things about life, I’m going to say as a non-verbal person, I am not a non-verbal person, but obviously I have to speak for my non-verbal child because he can’t.

(39m 14s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(39m 15s) Al:

I guess a thing about being a non-verbal person is you’re quite often the only non-verbal person around.

(39m 21s) Chelsea:

Right, exactly.

(39m 21s) Al:

Obviously not in certain circumstances because like he goes to a school with lots of people who need help in different ways.

(39m 29s)

And so obviously there he is surrounded.

(39m 31s)

But like in day to day other life, right?

(39m 34s)

Like you’re you’re not generally experiencing that, certainly at, you know, at camp.

(39m 39s)

Like I think the idea of going to a camp and there being multiple non-verbal is probably unlikely unless it’s a specialised camp.

(39m 46s)

I just thought it was nice.

(39m 47s) Chelsea:

Right.

(39m 48s) Al:

Like, you’re like, you’re not the only nonverbal person there and it’s just a thing they put into the game.

(39m 54s) Chelsea:

Oh yeah, it was great to not have everyone else is trying to figure you out.

(39m 58s)

Meanwhile, you’re all trying to figure each other out and y’all have, you know, certain things you could do, certain limitations, and you still find a way to communicate with each other in the game, which is.

(39m 59s) Al:

Mm-hmm.

(40m 7s)

Mm-hmm.

(40m 7s)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

(40m 9s)

So let’s talk about the talking mechanic itself.

(40m 12s)

So, obviously, you have your board, if people haven’t experienced this before, a common way for non-verbal people to talk is with,

(40m 13s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(40m 20s) Al:

I will say talk, by the way, my Craig, my youngest, he always, he always picks up whenever I say Nathan said this.

(40m 27s)

He’s like, Nathan didn’t say it. And I’m like, no, Nathan did say it.

(40m 29s)

He just didn’t use words.

(40m 31s)

He’s still speaking, right?

(40m 32s) Chelsea:

He didn’t speak it, but he still said it.

(40m 33s)

Well, that’s it.

(40m 34s)

Like he didn’t vocal.

(40m 35s) Al:

Yes, yes, he didn’t use his vocal cards to say a word, but that doesn’t mean he’s not speaking.

(40m 40s)

So I just as another point, I will be saying, say when I talk about this, it’s talking.

(40m 46s)

I strongly believe that when someone uses a communication board, they are they are talking.

(40m 51s)

Um, so you have the, you have your board and you start off with a few different symbols and then you, you gather more as you’re doing.

(40m 52s) Chelsea:

Oh yeah.

(41m 1s) Al:

I think it’s an interesting way to do things because I I mean, I guess suspension of disbelief for a minute.

(41m 6s)

I don’t believe for a moment that this child has reached this age being non-verbal and doesn’t already have a communications board.

(41m 14s) Chelsea:

You gotta have the game happen though.

(41m 14s) Al:

But.

(41m 17s)

Well, exact- exactly.

(41m 18s)

That’s my point.

(41m 19s)

Suspension of disbelief, just just been now there.

(41m 21s)

But I thought it was interesting where you gather symbols for places and things and people as you as you encounter them.

(41m 30s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(41m 30s) Al:

So it’s like,

(41m 31s) Chelsea:

Yeah, you build on what you build on the start of it.

(41m 33s) Al:

Exactly.

(41m 34s)

So it’s like you encounter a person and you ask who they are and they give you a symbol for who they are, which by the way, lovely thing is that these people were prepared for this.

(41m 44s)

One thing that lots of people’s experiences will be very different, but my experience with Nathan and his, so he goes to mainstream school one day a week and his class that he’s grown up with now, he’s 11 now.

(41m 50s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(42m) Al:

They are like super inclusive of him.

(42m 5s)

They’re so kind to him.

(42m 6s)

They will they will talk to him.

(42m 8s)

Um, knowing he’s not going to respond, but, uh, still talk to him as if they legitimately want to, you know, include him in things, which is just lovely.

(42m 19s)

And this felt the same sort of way.

(42m 20s) Chelsea:

That’s.

(42m 21s) Al:

It’s like, oh, people being so accepting of this person and how they communicate by being like, oh, yes, I’m so-and-so, here’s a symbol that you can use to refer to me is just really nice.

(42m 33s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(42m 33s)

That was very nice, because that’s not always the case, unfortunately.

(42m 37s) Al:

Well, yeah.

(42m 37s) Chelsea:

Um.

(42m 39s)

But, uh, no, that’s great for, at school being included that way.

(42m 45s)

And just personally, as for myself, like as a parent, yes, I experience outside, not to the degree that you have, but, um, my job, I’m a personal support worker.

(42m 55s)

So I work through, Basically from infancy to, seniors of people with different abilities.

(43m 2s)

So I’ve used communication boards.

(43m 4s)

I’ve seen like text to speech.

(43m 6s)

I don’t do sign language, but like I can understand a little bit of it and just seeing and you just communicate as you would, anyone else, or you try at least.

(43m 15s)

Um, yeah, I’m sorry, I lost my train of thought there, but yeah, no, it’s, it’s great to have anyone that they can, you know, try to feel like they’re including somebody in this situation.

(43m 19s) Al:

No, no.

(43m 26s)

Yeah, I also find it interesting because this is the way you play the game is by communicating, right?

(43m 32s)

That’s the entirety of the game is you move around the map and you communicate.

(43m 36s)

That is the entire game.

(43m 37s)

I think it’s a really interesting, so we talked a big at the beginning about making other people play the game.

(43m 44s)

Yes, I mean make.

(43m 45s)

I think it’s really interesting having to experience that the only way you can communicate with the world is by this board.

(43m 55s) Chelsea:

That’s what I was thinking too, because it’s like, okay, so if I’m getting a little bit frustrated, try to think what symbol do I use in the situation, I think that’s where you were going, imagine in real life, the situation of this is not exactly what I want to say, but I’m limited to these pictures and words on a board.

(44m 1s) Al:

Mm-hmm.

(44m 1s)

Yep.

(44m 3s)

Yep, yep.

(44m 10s)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

(44m 11s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(44m 12s) Al:

absolutely.

(44m 13s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(44m 14s)

Uh, it was great to show that you see all the versatile activities.

(44m 18s)

There was like the hide and seek, and the bird watching, um, what else, the painting, the dancing, and the art, and you were able to do all those things with just a, like with your board.

(44m 31s)

So it just showed so many, how many different activities you could do with that.

(44m 35s)

But that little board.

(44m 38s) Al:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

(44m 39s)

Yeah, you talk about the frustration.

(44m 41s)

It’s very true because sometimes you’ll be like, oh, maybe this will be the thing to tell them what I’m wanting to tell them and they’ll respond in a way that’s like, no, that’s not.

(44m 50s)

what I meant.

(44m 50s)

Like I get why you said that, right?

(44m 52s)

I get why you responded to what I gave you in the way that I did, but that’s not why I wanted to tell you.

(44m 56s)

It’s not how I wanted you to respond.

(44m 58s)

And then you have to be like, oh, well, what do I what do I actually want to tell you?

(45m 2s)

Um, and I mean, it’s a little bit different for us, me, because, um, so Nathan is, um, less, he, his understanding of things is less than the character in the game, certainly, and many people who would use communications boards.

(45m 17s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(45m 22s) Al:

Nathan isn’t like Nathan can’t how he won’t, he’s unlikely to ever be able to talk realistically.

(45m 29s)

And it’s not something that a speech therapist can fix.

(45m 33s)

Trust me, we’ve tried.

(45m 34s)

His it’s his understanding that’s often the issue.

(45m 34s) Chelsea:

Right.

(45m 35s)

Yeah.

(45m 38s) Al:

rather than necessarily his communication.

(45m 39s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(45m 41s) Al:

He’s actually surprisingly good at telling you what he wants when he wants to tell you what he wants.

(45m 45s)

The problem is that obviously it’s like other people understanding what he’s communicating is quite difficult.

(45m 53s)

But yeah, the idea of having like complex sentences that you’re trying to like tell somebody with the symbols is absolutely the case for a lot of people who can’t talk, but certainly for us, that’s less of a thing because Nathan is less trying to explain feelings and thoughts and stuff and is more trying to say, I want food.

(46m 15s)

I want to go out.

(46m 16s)

I want this, I want that, like it’s it’s about what he needs and what he wants in much more simplistic terms.

(46m 18s) Chelsea:

Right.

(46m 23s) Al:

The idea of, obviously, a mental age is a bit wishy-washy and a bit complicated, but, you know, his it can sometimes be useful for people and that his, you know, mental age is is often kind of like of a toddler.

(46m 42s)

He’s, you know, just very simplistic in a lot of ways, which is, you know, you know, we love him for who he is, but can, I think, make things even more complicated than that sort of thing because he’s not only trying to explain what he’s saying, he’s trying to understand what we’re saying as well because there are.

(47m 2s)

He will understand certain words and phrases and what they collate to, but he will like fixate on specific words in a sentence.

(47m 12s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(47m 12s) Al:

So you can’t be like, uh, you can’t say certain things in together because you will think you’re tasting something else, if that makes sense.

(47m 22s) Chelsea:

Okay, yeah, it’s very, very basic like, you can’t have a complex thought, like, it would be taken literally.

(47m 29s) Al:

Yeah, I think it’s hard to know because he can’t communicate in ways to explain this, but I suspect he has more complicated thoughts.

(47m 33s) Chelsea:

What’s it?

(47m 37s) Al:

It’s more like the language part of it.

(47m 40s)

where even when we’re talking about things, he will be like, if you say, um, I’m trying to think, he’s gained a lot over the last few years.

(47m 52s)

So the examples that I used to use don’t work anymore, right?

(47m 55s)

Like a couple of years ago, he wouldn’t understand the idea of we’re doing this, then we’re doing that.

(48m)

He would just assume that we’re doing them like both at the same time because you’ve like mentioned both things he’s thinking about both things and he will decide in his head.

(48m 5s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(48m 10s) Al:

We’re doing one of the things you said.

(48m 12s)

And if you say we’re doing them in this order.

(48m 14s)

That doesn’t mean he’s going to understand the order, right?

(48m 17s)

Because that communication of this, then that is very hard, certainly was very hard.

(48m 18s) Chelsea:

Right.

(48m 22s) Al:

He’s much better than that now.

(48m 23s)

We’re quite good at saying we’re doing this, then we’re doing that.

(48m 25s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(48m 26s) Al:

He’s much better understanding that now.

(48m 28s) Chelsea:

Good, good.

(48m 28s) Al:

But yeah, it’s things like that, right?

(48m 31s)

Like things that we take for granted.

(48m 32s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(48m 33s) Al:

Even with like, you know, I have a three-year-old nephew, he understands certain things like that.

(48m 39s)

He might be a, you know, moaning about it.

(48m 43s)

He might not want it, but he will understand it.

(48m 44s) Chelsea:

I don’t.

(48m 45s) Al:

In a lot of cases with Nathan, he just, he just won’t understand it.

(48m 50s)

And sometimes, like one of the things that’s really difficult for him is like negation, right?

(48m 55s)

Saying not this and he’ll hear, he’ll hear, when you say not this, he’ll hear this and he’ll think that he’s getting this, but you said not this.

(48m 57s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(49m 3s) Al:

So, like, we have to like make, like, if he asks for something and we can’t have that.

(49m 9s)

We say no or not now, and he will understand then that that’s not.

(49m 12s)

But if you say, oh, like if he asks for some sweets and he’s had too many sweets.

(49m 17s)

If you say no sweets, he’s like picking up the sweets, not necessarily the no.

(49m 22s)

So it’s things like that.

(49m 23s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(49m 24s) Al:

So in our case, like this game is less applicable, but it’s still, I think, very useful for that frustration side of things, right?

(49m 34s)

Because he obviously has that even more because there’s fewer symbols he can use and he can’t make up like he can’t make up the phrases that you can do with the board.

(49m 35s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(49m 43s) Al:

Um,

(49m 44s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(49m 44s)

Yeah, you’re pretty limited.

(49m 46s)

Like I try to do different combinations just to see what the result would be and Eventually I just kind of get a generic like, oh, okay.

(49m 53s)

I don’t know if you did that yourself, but uh,

(49m 54s) Al:

Yeah, I… I did, yeah, I thought that was interesting because um…

(50m)

There’s a lot of things that will mean something in the game, right?

(50m 4s)

Like you’ll be like, oh, uh, if you say just, you know, one of the one of the things you have to do in the game is you have to help uh, find one of the characters charms that they’ve lost.

(50m 15s)

And so you have to go and and ask people if they’ve seen it.

(50m 21s)

And the way you’re doing that is by asking for help.

(50m 24s)

But if you just go up to someone and say help, they’re like, oh, what do you need help with?

(50m 28s)

right

(50m 28s)

Because they don’t know.

(50m 29s)

You’re not telling them.

(50m 30s)

You’re just saying help.

(50m 31s)

But if you say help and then the character’s name, they will then know what you’re talking about because, oh, she lost the charm, right?

(50m 38s)

I don’t know, but ask this person sort of thing.

(50m 40s)

And so there is some more complicated things in the game that different things will lead to different outcomes, right?

(50m 48s)

Just saying help means they don’t know what they’re asking for and saying help character means that they do.

(50m 54s)

But there is, as you say, that point where you just, they stop, like, there’s not much they can do.

(51m 1s)

And so they’re just kind of like, 0 yeah, that’s nice.

(51m 3s)

You know, which is probably very realistic.

(51m 4s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(51m 7s)

Yeah, I think it, that is pretty accurate.

(51m 11s)

I remember going up to different kids and just saying feel happy and they’d be like, yay, you’re happy.

(51m 17s)

Or feel sad and they would kind of direct you to something else, but.

(51m 21s)

Yeah, a lot of times when people don’t quite understand what’s being said, even if it’s a question, they’ll just go, mm-hmm.

(51m 29s)

And I find that was pretty accurate with the game. And I mean, they couldn’t come up with infinite combinations, right?

(51m 33s) Al:

Yeah.

(51m 36s) Chelsea:

But, I bet for some, like, even for like a child that would play this game, they would feel frustrated.

(51m 42s) Al:

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

(51m 43s)

Does that, does that, um, you don’t have to get too personal if you don’t want to, but does that, like, map with your experience as well, because obviously your your daughter’s had more complex thoughts and understandings of things and therefore presumably would use it more like this game?

(51m 54s) Chelsea:

Yeah, so.

(51m 59s)

Yeah, so when she was, so I, my experience is not the same because she, I don’t want to say she grew out of it, but she found her way through speech therapy.

(52m 7s)

Um, so, she was born with a Praxio speech.

(52m 11s)

So, her thoughts are fully there.

(52m 14s)

It’s the motor function of her mouth could not pronounce words.

(52m 17s)

So, um, when we went through initial therapy, it was before she was in school, um, they basically said, don’t even bother.

(52m 18s) Al:

Okay.

(52m 29s) Chelsea:

Thanks, Canada healthcare.

(52m 31s)

Um, but, um, we didn’t take that for an answer.

(52m 35s)

So, um, because she has older siblings, they would try really hard to communicate with her and she had a very large vocabulary.

(52m 42s)

Um, one of the tests that they did was, uh, Just to see how, how her vocabulary pool was and she was way ahead of her age.

(52m 50s)

But no one could understand what she was saying just because her mouth could not form the words properly.

(52m 54s)

So once we actually found out what that was, um, we were able to do exercises, um, along the jaw, along, like with the tongue and like the placement of words and, um, but yeah, when she started kindergarten, they, we had a communication book and then we even had our teachers that were amazing, they would come up to us and say, oh, we thought that she said something different, but it turns out she was saying something way more advanced for her age.

(53m 21s)

So they thought, for an example, for one, they were saying, she was saying, oh, this hill is very steep.

(53m 26s)

But she, they couldn’t understand what she said, and then they realised, oh, she’s actually saying this, and that was more ahead of what.

(53m 33s)

Anyway, it was so frustrating to have her, um,

(53m 35s)

Her vocabulary like locked behind this physical ailment.

(53m 40s)

And I, again, it’s a different situation because she did work through it, but I remember when the speech therapist was saying, like, she’s not going to go to a, um, not a normal school, but like just like a regular classroom.

(53m 54s) Al:

Yeah.

(53m 54s) Chelsea:

Uh, just no hope for the future.

(53m 58s)

Now, like, you cannot even tell at all. I find when she’s like, when she’s, yeah, I don’t know.

(54m 2s) Al:

Yeah, I think.

(54m 4s) Chelsea:

It’s just I get emotional about it.

(54m 5s)

And I know that we’re very lucky because we did go, we did like go through and she’s more like, you can’t really tell anymore, but, I still always think of the kids that, you know, have a different condition.

(54m 19s)

I can imagine how frustrating it is.

(54m 22s) Al:

I mean, that’s the thing, right?

(54m 23s)

We don’t need to grade these things, right?

(54m 27s)

Like being non-verbal is being non-verbal, right?

(54m 32s)

Like not being able to verbalise your thoughts and feelings is the same no matter who you are.

(54m 37s)

And yet some people will gain the ability to be able to verbalise things however they want and some will not.

(54m 45s)

And that is, I think that’s fine.

(54m 49s)

Right?

(54m 49s)

Like we don’t, we don’t, we don’t.

(54m 51s)

I mean, it’s not fine.

(54m 52s)

It’s incredibly frustrating.

(54m 53s)

Our life is very difficult because of it, but fine in so much as like just because someone has a more difficult experience with things doesn’t mean that your experience with things is

(54m 54s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(55m 8s)

That’s fair.

(55m 8s)

For myself, this is turning into a therapy session.

(55m 11s) Al:

Good.

(55m 11s) Chelsea:

Um, I always, yeah, I always tried to keep it a little bit more to myself because I said, okay, well, she’s walking.

(55m 19s)

She’s, You know, she’s not physically limited.

(55m 23s)

This is fine.

(55m 24s)

Like, she’ll find her way, but, yeah, no, I,

(55m 27s)

She doesn’t even remember.

(55m 29s)

Like I ask her, do you remember using your communication book?

(55m 31s)

She’s like, nope.

(55m 33s) Al:

That’s interesting how old was she?

(55m 33s) Chelsea:

Uh, four.

(55m 35s)

So she started, yeah, when she started kindergarten, she was 4 and then halfway through junior kindergarten, she used to stop using it and it wasn’t even that her speech had improved so much.

(55m 45s)

It’s just that like her classroom was so accommodating that they understood what sounds were what.

(55m 50s)

So, But then, yeah, once she started going to a different therapist.

(55m 54s)

Um, it was all, some of it was through Zoom, which was incredibly frustrating.

(55m 58s)

I cannot imagine.

(55m 59s)

I felt so bad for the speech therapist because how do you keep a kid’s attention through Zoom, a 4 year old.

(56m 4s) Al:

Yeah.

(56m 4s)

Or even just like understanding what someone says or, you know, whatever, like, is very difficult over that sort of thing.

(56m 8s) Chelsea:

Yeah, so she had to like.

(56m 10s)

Yeah.

(56m 11s)

She had to zoom in, like, I can’t even imagine, like, what her software looked like, she had to zoom in and had to had all these like different angles of the mouth to see if she’s like positioning the words a certain way, and yeah, I can’t imagine how frustrating that was for all the speech language pathologists.

(56m 27s)

Eventually we were able to go in person, which was a lot easier because you do it through play.

(56m 32s)

Um, so I don’t know if people may have had a different experience like before COVID with their speech therapy.

(56m 34s) Al:

Yeah.

(56m 39s) Chelsea:

Um, but yeah, no, I asked her about it and I said, do you remember going to see so-and-so? And she says, oh, I remember playing. But she doesn’t remember any of the exercises, which is, it’s crazy how resilient kids are.

(56m 53s) Al:

Yeah, well, I mean, that’s a success, right?

(56m 54s) Chelsea:

And she had to do, I was, uh, a throat scope when she was or uh, no scope while she was awake.

(57m)

I don’t know if you’ve ever had to do that for any of your kids.

(57m 3s) Al:

No, I haven’t.

(57m 4s)

I don’t want to.

(57m 4s) Chelsea:

Um, no, I had to, I thought so, okay.

(57m 7s)

This is a completely off topic tangent, but when we went, they wanted to see if she was tongue tied or if she had like something in her throat that would like limit her ability.

(57m 15s) Al:

Yeah.

(57m 16s) Chelsea:

So I said, oh, well, we’ll just do a no scope.

(57m 18s)

I said, okay, well let’s just book the appointment.

(57m 20s)

like, nope, hold her down.

(57m 22s) Al:

Oh.

(57m 22s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(57m 23s)

They’re like, yeah, she’s not gonna be happy.

(57m 25s)

Okay.

(57m 26s)

So then they just put it down her nose, look through, and then she got a stuffed animal from the doctor and she still has it.

(57m 29s) Al:

Yeah.

(57m 31s)

But you know…

(57m 32s) Chelsea:

She’s like, oh, this was from the hospital.

(57m 33s)

It’s like, do you remember what we did at the hospital?

(57m 36s)

No.

(57m 36s)

And probably for the best then.

(57m 37s) Al:

I’m sorry.

(57m 38s)

I’m sure I’m sure it will come up in therapy in the future.

(57m 44s)

Yeah, it’s interesting because one of the things that we particularly struggle with is explaining to, you know, medical procedures to Nathan because obviously he has a lot of time with doctors, much more than a normal, you know, regular child, you know, most people would have many fewer.

(58m 1s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(58m 2s) Al:

And so kind of trying to explain, like, this is okay.

(58m 5s)

Like you’re not going to be hurt here is really hard to explain.

(58m 8s)

So one of the things that he’s been really difficult with over the years is dentists.

(58m 13s)

He’s getting better.

(58m 14s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(58m 14s) Al:

He’s kind of letting them look in a bit more now, but he’s they really struggled with that for a long time and also struggled with getting his teeth brushed so much so that almost every single one of his baby teeth had massive cavities in them.

(58m 28s)

And so, so we had, we had to, we had to take them out and he still has quite a few gaps because he’s still got a few teeth that haven’t come in.

(58m 28s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that is a…

(58m 35s) Al:

But he…

(58m 36s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(58m 38s) Al:

I mean, he had to go under general anaesthetic for that because it just, like, it wouldn’t have worked.

(58m 42s)

He couldn’t have done it.

(58m 44s)

He physically would not.

(58m 46s)

he wouldn’t understand these things.

(58m 47s)

Um, and he, he like just removes himself from the situation if he can, like he…

(58m 54s) Chelsea:

For sure.

(58m 55s)

Sorry, go ahead.

(58m 56s) Al:

No, no.

(58m 57s) Chelsea:

You think of the dentist for even like a typical person, I’ll say.

(59m 1s)

I don’t mean it like that, but like you lie down in a chair with a light shining in your face, glasses on, men with men and women with their masks on in your mouth.

(59m 5s) Al:

Mm-hmm.

(59m 10s) Chelsea:

Like, it’s scary for even like the average person.

(59m 11s) Al:

Yeah.

(59m 13s) Chelsea:

So imagine having to explain that.

(59m 16s) Al:

tell you the worst one they had, though, was not the dentist.

(59m 19s)

It was when, um, so he loves climbing and he’s generally really good and he’s generally really safe.

(59m 24s)

But no matter how safe you are, you’re always going to fall eventually.

(59m 27s)

And so there was one time that he fell and cracked his head off a floor.

(59m 31s)

And so we had to go to the doctor’s head bleeding. And we got to the hospital and they took us through and took a look at it and it was like, yeah, okay, so we’re going to have to, we’re going to have to staple that.

(59m 31s) Chelsea:

Oh my.

(59m 35s)

Wow.

(59m 44s)

Oh, no.

(59m 45s) Al:

And I’m like, oh, so, right.

(59m 49s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(59m 50s) Al:

And as you say, like, even with a typical child, that would be a difficult thing to do.

(59m 56s)

But we have our, uh, you know, non-verable child who cannot understand, like there’s no way we could explain that to him, right?

(1h) Chelsea:

Yep.

(1h 5s)

No.

(1h 5s) Al:

So we literally just had me and and Rona, my wife, either side of him, literally just holding him down while the doctor came in and just went, kadunk, kadunk.

(1h 15s) Chelsea:

Oh my goodness.

(1h 15s) Al:

It was, Possibly one of my worst days, like just the horrific face that he made, like thinking he had been, you know, um, he, you know, we, we’d just done this to him and he didn’t understand why.

(1h 16s) Chelsea:

That’s probably worse for you.

(1h 22s)

Oh my god.

(1h 34s) Al:

He didn’t know that it was so important that he had this because he had this gaping headwind.

(1h 39s)

It needed to be closed.

(1h 39s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 40s) Al:

And then the worst bit was 2 weeks later, we had to take them out.

(1h 45s) Chelsea:

Oh no.

(1h 47s)

Oh.

(1h 48s)

I was gonna ask, did he pick at it a lot or?

(1h 51s) Al:

Um, I mean, yeah, not so much that it caused huge problems, but yeah, um, that reminds me of when when he went in for his general anaesthetic for getting his teeth out, he wasn’t allowed to eat for 12 hours beforehand.

(1h 1m 8s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 1m 8s) Al:

And he just did not understand why I’m not getting any food.

(1h 1m 9s) Chelsea:

Explaining, no, you can’t eat.

(1h 1m 11s)

I’m sorry.

(1h 1m 12s)

Oh.

(1h 1m 13s) Al:

Because he didn’t understand, you know, and he was just like constantly being like, I need food.

(1h 1m 16s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 1m 19s) Al:

I need food.

(1h 1m 19s)

So yeah, that was particularly hard.

(1h 1m 22s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 1m 22s) Al:

It’s amazing the things you take for granted before you have to try and communicate with someone who has such a limited understanding of words.

(1h 1m 26s) Chelsea:

Honest.

(1h 1m 31s)

It’s hard person like for my work.

(1h 1m 33s)

I have some clients that, um, they have dementia or things along those lines and they’ll go in for a procedure or if they fall and they need stitches and they’ll, they’ll pick up the stitches and they open and not to get too graphic or anything, but then you have to go back and they don’t understand like why, you know, so it’s, oh, I can’t even imagine for your own child.

(1h 1m 53s)

But, uh, was that, was that recent?

(1h 1m 53s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 1m 54s)

It’s hard.

(1h 1m 56s) Chelsea:

Or was that?

(1h 1m 58s) Al:

That was a couple of years ago, the, um, the head wind.

(1h 2m) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 2m 3s) Al:

We’ve not had anything like that in the last couple of years, thankfully.

(1h 2m 6s)

So, but I mean, it’s just, 0 yeah, yeah, he still loves to climb.

(1h 2m 7s) Chelsea:

Is he still a climber?

(1h 2m 9s)

Yeah, I was going to say maybe would that scare him that like, oh, this happened after I climbed, but probably not, no.

(1h 2m 12s) Al:

No, no, no, no.

(1h 2m 15s)

The only thing he’s really scared of just now is dogs.

(1h 2m 17s)

Um, we’ve never figured out why.

(1h 2m 18s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 2m 20s) Al:

He’s didn’t have any big incident with dogs.

(1h 2m 23s)

It’s just like he just doesn’t seem to trust them.

(1h 2m 26s)

And I kind of get it because like they’re so the way that dogs act is so unpredictable.

(1h 2m 27s) Chelsea:

The vibes are off for the dog.

(1h 2m 34s)

Well, that’s it.

(1h 2m 35s)

You don’t know if they’re if they’re in bark, if they’re allowed, you know, if they’re,

(1h 2m 38s) Al:

Mm-hmm.

(1h 2m 39s) Chelsea:

Yeah, there’s different ways that it could go.

(1h 2m 42s) Al:

So if he’s aware of a dog, he will keep his eye on it the whole time.

(1h 2m 44s)

And he has this love-hate relationship with him.

(1h 2m 46s)

He does not want to get near them, but he also kind of wants to pet them.

(1h 2m 50s) Chelsea:

Admire from afar.

(1h 2m 51s) Al:

So it’s like, yeah, so it’s like my, my sister has a, has a dog, so we’ve kind of been trying to, to get him to interact with, with Nugget a few times.

(1h 3m 2s)

And we’ve got there.

(1h 3m 2s) Chelsea:

Oh, nugget.

(1h 3m 4s) Al:

We’ve managed to get him to stroke her a couple of times, but she’s also quite a yappy, fast moving dog and so like he’ll come up and then she’ll start moving and he’s like, run away because like she dared to move.

(1h 3m 16s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 3m 17s)

Wait a minute, yeah.

(1h 3m 19s)

Oh.

(1h 3m 19s) Al:

If we’re at, if we’re out somewhere and there’s dogs, he will like keep stay close to you and like use you as a human shield.

(1h 3m 27s)

But if the dog gets too close he will climb you.

(1h 3m 29s)

And I’m not.

(1h 3m 30s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 3m 32s) Al:

I’m not exaggerating

(1h 3m 33s)

He will literally climb up, he will use the clothes as hand handholds and footholds, and he will get up as high as he can so that he is not near that dog.

(1h 3m 40s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(1h 3m 43s) Al:

Oh, dear.

(1h 3m 45s)

No, yeah, so he still climbs.

(1h 3m 47s)

He did not put him off him, thankfully, but.

(1h 3m 48s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 3m 48s)

Okay.

(1h 3m 50s) Al:

Okay, let’s talk about the games because there’s a few different games that you do.

(1h 3m 53s) Chelsea:

Sure.

(1h 3m 54s) Al:

What was your favourite game?

(1h 3m 56s) Chelsea:

I love the bird watching.

(1h 3m 58s) Al:

Hmm.

(1h 3m 58s)

You know, that was the that was the one when I finished last because it took me a while to actually understand what it was asking me to do.

(1h 3m 59s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 4m 5s)

Oh, I had a hard time finding the woodpecker.

(1h 4m 8s)

Um, that was the last one.

(1h 4m 8s) Al:

Hmm.

(1h 4m 9s)

That was a good one.

(1h 4m 9s) Chelsea:

I really liked it because, um, it forces you to pay closer attention to what’s around and use your ears.

(1h 4m 17s) Al:

Yeah, that’s my problem.

(1h 4m 17s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 4m 19s)

Yeah, because they’re kind of like some of them you can kind of see.

(1h 4m 23s)

But other ones, uh, you have to just listen.

(1h 4m 23s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 4m 26s) Chelsea:

But yeah, I’m surprised too, because I would I’m more of a visual person.

(1h 4m 29s)

And I thought, I don’t know if you noticed all the bugs that were flying around.

(1h 4m 32s) Al:

Yep.

(1h 4m 32s) Chelsea:

I thought there was going to be something with the butterflies and the other bugs, but there wasn’t.

(1h 4m 33s) Al:

Yep Yep.

(1h 4m 35s)

Yeah.

(1h 4m 36s) Chelsea:

Yeah, what was your favourite?

(1h 4m 39s) Al:

Ooh, I liked the, I liked the scavenger hunt. Because I liked the kind of the, the link that you were doing there going from place to place.

(1h 4m 50s) Chelsea:

Yeah, I felt like that one should have been like, would be a good one to do 1st because it showed you all around the, The camp.

(1h 4m 55s) Al:

Mm-hmm.

(1h 4m 56s)

Yeah.

(1h 4m 57s)

Yeah, no, I enjoyed that.

(1h 4m 59s)

So we’ve got the scavenger hunt.

(1h 5m)

Basically, you’ve got one, each of the characters has a game, basically, um, that they want to play with you. And so you you walk up to them and you say play and then they will tell you what their game is and then you can, you can do that.

(1h 5m 10s)

So, um, there was the scavenger hunt, which is you uh, have a clue and you had to show the other person where you think the clue was leading you towards.

(1h 5m 22s)

Some of them were easier than others, shall we say?

(1h 5m 25s)

So of course, for that, you, as you say, you need to have been everywhere.

(1h 5m 29s)

so you need to have got the symbols for everything.

(1h 5m 32s)

And then there was the bird watching, and for that, you needed to find a bird, look at it through your binoculars, and once you’ve seen it through the binoculars, you’ll get the symbol for that bird and you had to go back and tell the person what bird you saw and where you saw them.

(1h 5m 48s) Chelsea:

And honestly, I didn’t pay enough attention.

(1h 5m 50s)

So like I knew which bird, but then I would, I forgot where I’d see it.

(1h 5m 53s)

So I just cycled through all of them.

(1h 5m 54s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 5m 55s) Chelsea:

I don’t remember exactly where.

(1h 5m 59s) Al:

Um, and then there was hide and seek.

(1h 6m 2s)

So there’s a character who hides under a box and you have to go and find him.

(1h 6m 7s)

I don’t think there was anything else to that.

(1h 6m 9s)

You just had to say play and you would go and hide and then you’d go find it.

(1h 6m 11s) Chelsea:

Oh, I think.

(1h 6m 14s)

See, I thought I was doing it wrong because I’m like, do I just infinitely follow him? And then eventually it’s like, no, we’re pals now.

(1h 6m 17s) Al:

Eventually it stops, yeah.

(1h 6m 19s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 6m 20s) Al:

And then there was the art.

(1h 6m 23s)

So there was an artist who wanted inspiration.

(1h 6m 24s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(1h 6m 26s) Al:

The funny thing is about this is what I find…

(1h 6m 28s) Chelsea:

I had a soft spot for her because her name was Gwenny.

(1h 6m 31s) Al:

Okay, what I found particularly funny about that was basically every location is inspiration.

(1h 6m 38s)

Because it’s like, I was like, oh, what are going to be the most inspirational places?

(1h 6m 38s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that’s true.

(1h 6m 42s) Al:

Oh, go to the beach and then it’s like, oh, go to the, and then I’d gone through all the ones that I thought were inspirational and I was like, I’ve not finished this yet.

(1h 6m 49s)

There’s still ones to do.

(1h 6m 50s)

And I was like, oh, I guess go paint the lodge then, I guess.

(1h 6m 54s) Chelsea:

Go to the lodge, go to the activity board.

(1h 6m 56s)

Yeah, I know I was.

(1h 6m 57s) Al:

Yeah, yeah, go pain the exhibit board.

(1h 6m 59s) Chelsea:

I was thinking about it too.

(1h 7m 2s)

I’m like, oh, well, I think the 1st one I did was the cliff or no, the tower.

(1h 7m 6s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 7m 6s) Chelsea:

And I’m like, oh, I don’t know if there’s a wrong one, but then she just did all of them.

(1h 7m 9s)

Like, okay.

(1h 7m 11s) Al:

I mean, I feel like that kind of says something, right?

(1h 7m 13s)

Like anything can be inspiration.

(1h 7m 15s) Chelsea:

Yeah, they got the child like one whimsy.

(1h 7m 18s) Al:

Yeah, yeah, that too.

(1h 7m 19s)

Like, 0 yeah, I’m going to make a painting for this.

(1h 7m 21s)

What I really liked about that as well is the paintings then go up inside the lodge and you can go in and look at all the paintings once she’s done them all.

(1h 7m 28s) Chelsea:

Yeah, that was that was really nice.

(1h 7m 30s)

Uh, the dancing one, I got a little confused with because the last one was the counsellor, and you have to ask him like 3 or 4 times to show him your dance move.

(1h 7m 40s)

Or show show you his dance move.

(1h 7m 41s) Al:

Oh, see I…

(1h 7m 43s)

I just, so I, I don’t think I got his then because I did get the, the, the cut scene at the end where you do them all, but I only asked him once and he said he didn’t dance.

(1h 7m 43s) Chelsea:

Sorry.

(1h 7m 54s) Al:

So I moved on from him.

(1h 7m 55s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 7m 56s)

Had an achievement on steam.

(1h 7m 56s) Al:

Did I miss that?

(1h 7m 58s)

Oh, man.

(1h 7m 58s) Chelsea:

You have to ask, uh, I think it’s 3 or 4 times and he goes, okay, fine, here’s my dance move.

(1h 8m 3s) Al:

Oh, I didn’t even check the steam achievements to see if I’d got the model.

(1h 8m 8s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 8m 8s) Al:

Oh man, I’m going to have to go do that then.

(1h 8m 9s) Chelsea:

Yeah, it’s a cute little thing.

(1h 8m 12s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 8m 13s)

Um, I like the, I like the dancing one because yeah, you go up to everyone and you’re like, oh, show me your dance move. Oh yeah, I’ve got 9 out of 10 achievements.

(1h 8m 14s) Chelsea:

Uh, and then there was the, uh,

(1h 8m 21s) Al:

There’s one missing.

(1h 8m 22s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 8m 22s) Al:

One hidden achievement.

(1h 8m 24s)

Obviously I’m going to have to do that now.

(1h 8m 27s) Chelsea:

More completionist.

(1h 8m 28s) Al:

Obviously.

(1h 8m 29s) Chelsea:

Find your words, completionist.

(1h 8m 31s) Al:

I wonder what the speed run is on this game.

(1h 8m 34s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 8m 38s) Al:

So, yeah, so I like that you go around to every person and then you say, what’s your favourite dance? Oh, you say dance, and they show you a dance move, and then at the end you go and do a little, you combine them all into a little routine.

(1h 8m 52s)

And there was the character who, oh, so I can’t remember.

(1h 8m 58s)

I can’t remember anybody’s name.

(1h 9m) Chelsea:

Okay, so the one that did the trivia, uh, was Penny.

(1h 9m 2s) Al:

Yes.

(1h 9m 3s)

Penny.

(1h 9m 4s) Chelsea:

Who use the Texas speech system.

(1h 9m 5s) Al:

So.

(1h 9m 6s)

Yes, but she has 2 things.

(1h 9m 9s)

So you have you have trivia, you have a number of trivia questions for her, which this was the 1st case where I actually was like, oh, I don’t actually have a symbol yet.

(1h 9m 17s)

I need to go finish something else before I can come back to you.

(1h 9m 19s)

And I think that you have to do most of the things before you can complete hers because like you needed the paintbrush one, which you don’t get until you finish.

(1h 9m 26s) Chelsea:

That’s the one I needed too.

(1h 9m 27s) Al:

What are the chances? But also with her, she’s the one that loses the charm, so you have to help her get the charm as well.

(1h 9m 35s)

So she actually has 22 activities.

(1h 9m 38s) Chelsea:

Mhm. Yeah, I was like, hold on.

(1h 9m 39s)

I gotta find the paintbrush thing.

(1h 9m 42s)

So I figured there was a certain way you had to do the quests.

(1h 9m 46s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 9m 46s)

Um.

(1h 9m 48s) Chelsea:

But no, I think it’s just, I got so emotional at the end.

(1h 9m 51s)

Like, when your mom comes to pick you up.

(1h 9m 54s)

I don’t know if I’m dropping the gun here a little.

(1h 9m 54s) Al:

And you go and give her.

(1h 9m 56s)

No, no, no, no, that’s all the activities, so you’re not jumping the gum.

(1h 9m 59s) Chelsea:

Okay, um, that’s the game.

(1h 10m) Al:

Go for it.

(1h 10m)

Spoiler alert, spoiler alert for the end of Find your words.

(1h 10m 1s) Chelsea:

Spoiler alert, your mom comes and pick you up.

(1h 10m 5s)

Your mom comes to pick you up at the end of the camp.

(1h 10m 8s)

And then she just says, oh, how was your day?

(1h 10m 10s)

And then you can list off as many activities as you want.

(1h 10m 13s)

And.

(1h 10m 13s) Al:

She just keeps listening until you stop.

(1h 10m 14s) Chelsea:

And then you give her, you just give her this huge hug and that’s an achievement.

(1h 10m 19s)

Your mom, and I just thought it was so, so wholesome, and they did another amazing job.

(1h 10m 19s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 10m 27s)

Yeah, I agree.

(1h 10m 29s) Chelsea:

No, no notes.

(1h 10m 30s)

Honestly, like it was, I mean, I think I saw that there’s like a bundle.

(1h 10m 34s)

I don’t know what the add-on is.

(1h 10m 36s)

Um, unless I…

(1h 10m 37s) Al:

Oh, I hadn’t noticed that.

(1h 10m 42s) Chelsea:

Unless it was, or unless it was just saying that you could.

(1h 10m 43s) Al:

Oh, it’s a supporters pack.

(1h 10m 45s) Chelsea:

Oh, okay.

(1h 10m 45s)

And then I saw you can listen to the music.

(1h 10m 46s) Al:

Yeah, so.

(1h 10m 47s) Chelsea:

Oh, that’s one thing.

(1h 10m 48s) Al:

So this is, I mean, this is the thing about this game.

(1h 10m 48s) Chelsea:

I love the music.

(1h 10m 51s) Al:

This game is free.

(1h 10m 53s)

Um, but there is a support just pack if you want to pay for it.

(1h 10m 53s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(1h 10m 56s) Al:

It’s a really interesting way of doing these things.

(1h 10m 58s)

It’s like we’re not going to charge you, but you can pay if you want.

(1h 11m 2s)

And then, yeah, you get the soundtrack and a printable activity.

(1h 11m 6s) Chelsea:

I did a little bit of.

(1h 11m 9s)

Oh, yeah, I looked a bit into the developers and they seem to have a personal experience with this kind of thing, so that’s great and I really think it would be amazing to have this mandated.

(1h 11m 16s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 11m 22s) Chelsea:

Find your word, that’s cool.

(1h 11m 23s)

No, but, um, you know, if there’s a situation where there’s a student in the class that has different needs in everyone, like it would be great just to even just show the video, like the trailer or part of the gameplay to kids saying like, you know, this is how certain people communicate and just make it accessible to other kids to understand.

(1h 11m 43s) Al:

Yeah, so here’s a question.

(1h 11m 45s)

What do you think the youngest child who would be able to play this and understand what it’s getting at?

(1h 11m 51s) Chelsea:

So legitimately understand, probably 7.

(1h 11m 53s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 11m 53s)

Okay.

(1h 11m 54s) Chelsea:

Um, like if you like to, to watch it, maybe 5, 4 or 5?

(1h 12m 1s) Al:

Yeah, they’re not going to get the point, though, at that point, I guess, are they?

(1h 12m 4s) Chelsea:

Yeah, like I would say, well, this is how other people communicate.

(1h 12m 6s)

But, uh, to fully understand, if they were to play it themselves, like the frustration of the board and like the limitations of the board, probably, so my daughter is 8.

(1h 12m 15s)

So, uh, She took a look at it and I said, well, how would you feel if this was what you were?

(1h 12m 20s)

This is all you were limited to?

(1h 12m 21s)

And she said, I’d be upset.

(1h 12m 22s)

I’d be frustrated.

(1h 12m 23s)

But, uh, I don’t know, what about you?

(1h 12m 26s)

do you think?

(1h 12m 27s) Al:

I think you’re probably right.

(1h 12m 28s)

I mean, it does help that my youngest is seven, so I was thinking, my question, you know, my thinking is, would he understand it?

(1h 12m 31s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 12m 36s) Al:

And I suspect he probably would, but also he’s a very clever child.

(1h 12m 39s)

So that doesn’t necessarily mean much.

(1h 12m 40s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 12m 41s)

Yeah.

(1h 12m 42s) Al:

Yeah, I think I might need to try him with this game and see what he thinks because he loves playing games like he’s into Mario and Astrobot and a whole bunch of other games, Minecraft.

(1h 12m 56s) Chelsea:

Nice.

(1h 13m) Al:

So I’d love to get. What?

(1h 13m) Chelsea:

I imagine all of our kids are nerdy. With who our with who their parents are.

(1h 13m 5s) Al:

Never.

(1h 13m 9s) Chelsea:

Um, how is your your younger son?

(1h 13m 13s) Al:

Oh, that’s an interesting question.

(1h 13m 14s) Chelsea:

If you don’t mind me asking.

(1h 13m 14s) Al:

No, no, no, no, absolutely.

(1h 13m 17s)

I said I was going to be open.

(1h 13m 18s)

They have an interesting relationship.

(1h 13m 22s)

I mean, they’re never going to have, you know, normal sibling relationship, whatever that means.

(1h 13m 28s)

Um, I think certainly when he was younger trying to explain that Nathan doesn’t talk was difficult and, you know, we’re going through that with his cousins just know as well, his younger cousins, his older cousin.

(1h 13m 41s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 13m 42s) Al:

He has he has 2 older cousins and then he has 3 younger cousins.

(1h 13m 47s)

Um, and the 3 younger cousins are 3, 2, and 0.

(1h 13m 51s)

And so we’re just kind of getting to the point where the oldest is starting to notice that Nathan doesn’t actually talk because I think at some point you just don’t at certain ages you just don’t notice it, right?

(1h 13m 52s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 14m 2s) Al:

You’re just like, people exist and I don’t really notice the difference between people.

(1h 14m 3s) Chelsea:

Right, yeah.

(1h 14m 4s)

Yeah.

(1h 14m 7s) Al:

Um, But yeah, it’s it’s a difficult thing to kind of explain to another child.

(1h 14m 8s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 14m 13s) Al:

I mean, when we obviously experience it quite a lot when Nathan’s out and about playing and like a child comes up to and tries to engage him in conversation and it’s like, you don’t want to immediately go in and say, oh, he doesn’t talk, right?

(1h 14m 24s)

You don’t want to remove the kind of interaction that’s happening, but also Nathan just ignores them.

(1h 14m 28s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 14m 29s) Al:

Like he doesn’t generally care about other children.

(1h 14m 33s)

I think.

(1h 14m 33s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 14m 34s)

Yeah, I don’t want to like immediately say, oh, just don’t bother.

(1h 14m 37s) Al:

Exactly, exactly.

(1h 14m 37s) Chelsea:

It just, oh, he communicates in a different way.

(1h 14m 38s) Al:

You don’t want to.

(1h 14m 40s)

Exactly, because who knows one day he might.

(1h 14m 42s)

One day he might start interacting with children and I don’t want to like stop it when it’s about to happen and then I never would have known that that would have happened.

(1h 14m 48s)

It hasn’t happened yet, but that doesn’t mean it won’t.

(1h 14m 51s)

But at some point you do have to go in and you have to be like, he doesn’t, he doesn’t talk.

(1h 14m 52s) Chelsea:

Oh exactly.

(1h 14m 57s) Al:

Feel free to try and play with him, but the chances are he won’t, you know, he won’t play with you, but absolutely try.

(1h 15m 4s)

Like there’s nothing, nothing wrong with that.

(1h 15m 6s)

And as I say, like the kids at his school are great.

(1h 15m 8s)

They’ve all learned a bunch of sign language, even though Nathan doesn’t use.

(1h 15m 11s) Chelsea:

Oh, that’s amazing.

(1h 15m 12s)

Oh.

(1h 15m 12s) Al:

Nathan doesn’t use sane language, but they’ve still learned it and they still use it with him just because, right?

(1h 15m 19s)

Because they’re like, you never know.

(1h 15m 20s)

And I think it’s it’s so lovely the way they do that.

(1h 15m 23s)

But, um, different people understand him in different ways.

(1h 15m 24s) Chelsea:

That’s great.

(1h 15m 27s) Al:

But yeah, Craig is, I think, I think Craig and Nathan treat each other the same way and that they just kind of exist nearby, right?

(1h 15m 39s)

Like, and it’s kind of, in a way, it’s in a way, it’s sad, right?

(1h 15m 40s) Chelsea:

Okay, swear it up.

(1h 15m 42s) Al:

Like because they don’t have any sort of normal sibling relationship.

(1h 15m 48s) Chelsea:

No, it’s a different dynamic.

(1h 15m 50s) Al:

And like a lot of a lot of the thing with having a child who is likely to never develop in the same way that other people do and is likely to never, you know, he’s never going to have, unless we don’t stop trying, just to make this clear, I don’t want people to think we’ve given up.

(1h 16m 13s)

We absolutely have not given up and we are likely never to give up.

(1h 16m 13s) Chelsea:

No, no.

(1h 16m 15s) Al:

But at this point, have he, you know, he’s a living and he still doesn’t have very basic communication.

(1h 16m 22s)

We’ve kind of got come to the realisation that he’s never going to get to certain points.

(1h 16m 29s)

And that is a difficult thing to live with because in a way, it’s a kind of grief, right?

(1h 16m 36s)

Like you’re, you, when you have a child, and I’ve experienced this in multiple ways, because we went through a couple of miscarriages as well.

(1h 16m 37s) Chelsea:

Absolutely.

(1h 16m 46s) Al:

Nathan was actually meant to be a twin.

(1h 16m 49s)

Um, we uh, went to the 1st scan and there were 2 and then the 2nd scan, there was only one.

(1h 16m 50s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 16m 56s) Al:

And so we’ve experienced this sort of thing in multiple different ways.

(1h 17m 2s)

But yeah, when you become a parent and you’ll, you’ll know this, like you have expectations and you have, like, you know what, you know what having a child is, right?

(1h 17m 11s)

You have a child and they are a baby and then they’re a toddler and then they learn to be themselves and then they grow up and they become an adult and they move away and and that is the natural progression of things, of having a child.

(1h 17m 14s) Chelsea:

Yep.

(1h 17m 23s)

Well, it’s that you have sentimental milestones that you’re expecting to achieve with them and then, yeah, it’s absolutely something that you grieve.

(1h 17m 29s) Al:

And then,

(1h 17m 30s)

And then you never experience them.

(1h 17m 33s)

Um, you know?

(1h 17m 35s) Chelsea:

This is a hard episode for you to start me off.

(1h 17m 38s)

People are like, never bring this girl back.

(1h 17m 42s) Al:

Uh, I don’t know.

(1h 17m 44s)

I cried on the Spirit Fader episode as well.

(1h 17m 47s)

So, I don’t know what my point is.

(1h 17m 52s) Chelsea:

No, but people say like, oh, it’s a blessing to have a child that has like, is disabled.

(1h 17m 59s)

It’s like, well, you know, you love them no matter why, but there is still the expectation, like, of hope of, I don’t want to say a normal childhood, but like you have a child with the hope of reaching certain parts of life together and experiencing life with your child.

(1h 18m 14s)

And, you know, I would not try to sound.

(1h 18m 19s)

Bad at all anyway, but uh, that’s just what you would expect.

(1h 18m 23s)

Like, people get, for example, people.

(1h 18m 27s)

Uh, get a dog with the expectation of, oh yeah, I can take my dog up for a walk.

(1h 18m 32s)

I can feed my dog, I can play with my dog, but then if you get a dog that’s reactive or like, gets injured, it’s a different experience, and obviously I’m not comparing paranoid to dog ownership, but like, you get something, you plan for something in your life with the expectation of it going a certain way, and you do grieve if that doesn’t happen the way that you had planned on it.

(1h 18m 54s)

If I’m explaining that at all correctly.

(1h 18m 54s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 18m 55s)

No, no, yeah, yeah, no, you are.

(1h 18m 58s)

I mean, for me, you are, but like.

(1h 19m) Chelsea:

Yeah, no.

(1h 19m 1s)

Again, I do not speak for everyone on the planet, but from my own experience, and from what I’ve seen as a healthcare employee.

(1h 19m 10s)

Like I see children that, you know, Never walk, never feed themselves, and, you know, the parents will pull me aside just because that’s my job.

(1h 19m 20s)

And I see the disappointment.

(1h 19m 22s)

I see the grief and they have no one else to talk to, so they often will tell me like this isn’t what we expected.

(1h 19m 27s)

Am I a bad person for wanting something else?

(1h 19m 30s)

And then you say, of course not.

(1h 19m 32s)

And it’s just maybe a taboo situation, but like I understand 100% expecting a different reality.

(1h 19m 40s) Al:

Yeah, I think day to day, it’s, uh, it’s not something you think about too deeply, right?

(1h 19m 45s)

Because then you’d just be constantly depressed.

(1h 19m 46s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 19m 49s) Al:

But, you know, it’s something.

(1h 19m 50s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 19m 54s) Al:

From time to time.

(1h 19m 56s) Chelsea:

Of course.

(1h 19m 58s) Al:

Still love him.

(1h 19m 59s)

He’s an absolutely adorable child.

(1h 20m 1s)

That helps.

(1h 20m 2s) Chelsea:

That helps.

(1h 20m 3s)

Yeah.

(1h 20m 4s)

Nature knew what it was doing, making the kids cute.

(1h 20m 7s) Al:

But yeah, um, he’s, we’ve actually, so interestingly, around his uh, communication board.

(1h 20m 16s)

started off very simply with him, because obviously, as I mentioned, it’s not like, unlike the child in this game, can’t just be told a word given a symbol and then immediately has that connection.

(1h 20m 29s)

We took literally years to get to the point where he could use even one symbol.

(1h 20m 30s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 20m 35s)

Wow.

(1h 20m 35s) Al:

Um, and uh, anyone who knows Nathan will know that it was a food symbol.

(1h 20m 41s)

It was snack.

(1h 20m 43s)

It was, I want a snack.

(1h 20m 43s) Chelsea:

Perfect.

(1h 20m 44s) Al:

He is very food driven.

(1h 20m 47s)

That is that is his his goalen life is to eat as much as possible.

(1h 20m 47s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 20m 50s) Al:

Which, like, fair, I get it.

(1h 20m 53s)

Um, so we started off with that and um, and then it took his another couple of years to get to the 2nd symbol.

(1h 20m 53s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 21m) Al:

But we’re not…

(1h 21m 1s) Chelsea:

Okay, I bet breaking that 1st symbol, you must have been so proud.

(1h 21m 4s) Al:

Oh, it was huge.

(1h 21m 5s)

It was absolutely huge.

(1h 21m 6s)

The problem then is we tried a few different symbols that were for different things.

(1h 21m 10s)

We tried using symbols to toilet training, for example, and it didn’t go anywhere and then we tried a couple of other things.

(1h 21m 17s)

Eventually, um, we kind of just, we gave up on adding new symbols for ages and then maybe like a year and a half ago we started again.

(1h 21m 26s)

And we added a few more symbols and we managed to get there because a while, but we got there with a couple more symbols and we’re now at the point where he’s actually managing to pick up on symbols with only a couple of weeks of work.

(1h 21m 33s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(1h 21m 41s)

Oh wow.

(1h 21m 43s) Al:

So we’ve, in fact, I got one today where he used it on his own without any prompting asking for something that he wanted for the 1st time for that symbol and that feeling is just amazing.

(1h 21m 57s) Chelsea:

Oh, wow, what was it?

(1h 21m 59s) Al:

It was bacon.

(1h 22m 2s) Chelsea:

Perfect.

(1h 22m 2s)

Yes that’s a good motivator.

(1h 22m 4s) Al:

He loves bacon.

(1h 22m 5s)

Bacon is one of his things, but he, his, the way he used to ask for bacon was take you to the fridge, you’d open the fridge and then you’d tap the bacon, which like, in its way, is fine, but like we really, I think this is one of the reasons why we used bacon as one of these ones is because it’s a very clear we know what he’s asking for.

(1h 22m 13s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 22m 23s) Al:

And then we go, okay, if you want bacon, you come here and you use this symbol, bacon, and then we do the bacon.

(1h 22m 29s)

But today was the 1st day that the 1st time that he asked for bacon using the symbol without any other prompting.

(1h 22m 35s)

Like he just, he took me.

(1h 22m 35s) Chelsea:

Oh, wow.

(1h 22m 36s) Al:

He took me to his communication device and I said, yeah, what can I do for you?

(1h 22m 40s)

And he looked at me and he looked at the tablet and he tapped bacon and he looked back at me and I said, yes, you can have bacon and he bounced.

(1h 22m 48s)

He was so happy because I think he.

(1h 22m 50s) Chelsea:

Out of any time in your life, you can have bacon now.

(1h 22m 52s) Al:

Well, this is the… This is the thing.

(1h 22m 52s) Chelsea:

This is a time you’re going to be getting your baking.

(1h 22m 56s) Al:

We’ve actually, we’ve actually talked about like if he ever does use, say a word out loud using his voice.

(1h 23m 2s)

I think no matter what word that is, if he’s asking for something, he’s getting it.

(1h 23m 8s)

Right?

(1h 23m 9s) Chelsea:

Of course.

(1h 23m 9s) Al:

Like, literally whatever it is.

(1h 23m 10s) Chelsea:

Oh my gosh.

(1h 23m 11s)

Yeah.

(1h 23m 11s) Al:

You know, you know what?

(1h 23m 12s)

At this point, I’d be happy if his 1st word was a swear word.

(1h 23m 15s)

Right?

(1h 23m 16s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(1h 23m 16s) Al:

Like I just, I, you know, it’s, it’s one of these things.

(1h 23m 19s)

So yeah, it was amazing for him to ask for that.

(1h 23m 23s)

And I think he felt that as well with how excited he was.

(1h 23m 26s)

Maybe he was just excited for the bacon.

(1h 23m 27s) Chelsea:

Oh. Well.

(1h 23m 28s) Al:

Maybe he was excited because he’d managed to use a new one.

(1h 23m 31s)

I don’t know.

(1h 23m 33s) Chelsea:

No, that’s huge though.

(1h 23m 34s)

Do you work with, um, is it like an occupational therapist or?

(1h 23m 37s) Al:

Oh, we have a 1000000000 people that we work with.

(1h 23m 40s)

We have a ball, uh, we have, on the one hand, so much help.

(1h 23m 46s)

Um, his, so his 2 schools, his mainstream local school that he goes to for one day a week and his um, uh, specialist department in another school further away.

(1h 23m 57s)

Everyone that he works with in both of those is absolutely amazing.

(1h 24m 1s)

Like they go above and beyond.

(1h 24m 2s) Chelsea:

That’s.

(1h 24m 3s) Al:

We just, we couldn’t ask for for better people.

(1h 24m 6s)

Um, and a lot of the health professionals that we work with, they’re also really good.

(1h 24m 12s)

Not all.

(1h 24m 13s) Chelsea:

Well, that makes it well, most, some, most.

(1h 24m 15s) Al:

Most of them are, I think some of them are, some of them are really great.

(1h 24m 21s)

Some of them are trying but overstretched.

(1h 24m 24s)

as with all systems.

(1h 24m 25s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 24m 27s) Al:

There’s always going to be problems.

(1h 24m 29s)

And then some of them, I wonder why they’re in the…

(1h 24m 34s) Chelsea:

Oh, that’s the worst part.

(1h 24m 37s) Al:

So I’m struggling to remember the specifics of which person is which, so I can’t remember what an occupational therapist does.

(1h 24m 45s) Chelsea:

Okay, so they, they can do the communication book, but it could also be speech language pathologist.

(1h 24m 51s)

Well, in Ontario anyway, so the occupational therapist would…

(1h 24m 57s)

I can’t even explain it.

(1h 24m 59s) Al:

So we’ve, we’ve had, we’ve had speech, we’ve had speech therapy dealing with him, but they, um, they, they came to the conclusion that they can’t help him based on his, like how he is.

(1h 24m 59s) Chelsea:

Certain.

(1h 25m 1s)

Yeah.

(1h 25m 10s) Al:

Um, so I think part that’s part of the problem is that he’s he’s not unique.

(1h 25m 11s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 25m 16s) Al:

There are people like him, but his lack of understanding is so severe that so many people don’t know what to do with him.

(1h 25m 25s) Chelsea:

Okay, yeah.

(1h 25m 26s)

There has to be like a certain baseline to build upon for.

(1h 25m 29s) Al:

Exactly, exactly.

(1h 25m 31s)

And I think the problem is that because there’s so few people like Nathan, they don’t know what to do.

(1h 25m 36s)

You know, it’s like, okay, well, we can’t, like these buckets that we have for throwing people into and helping them, he doesn’t fit into any of these buckets, so we don’t really know where to put it.

(1h 25m 48s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 25m 48s)

So yeah, like in Ontario, um, they would do adoptive equipment.

(1h 25m 52s)

So like wheelchairs, um, ramps, like anything that would help, like, with increased safety in the house.

(1h 25m 59s)

Um, I don’t know if you’ve had any of, of that or?

(1h 26m 3s) Al:

Yeah, I mean, obviously we don’t need many kind of physical adjustments because he’s physically, you know, fine.

(1h 26m 9s)

We’ve never had any issues with that.

(1h 26m 10s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 26m 11s) Al:

We have had a couple of adaptations in the house, but it’s because so we got a wet room put in because he would get completely over the top in the bath and he just completely flooded our house.

(1h 26m 23s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 26m 23s) Al:

So we ended up getting a wet room in and that was a huge thing.

(1h 26m 27s)

So we got funding for that and we got help with that.

(1h 26m 28s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 26m 29s) Al:

So, yeah, we do have, I think mostly it’s the social worker we work with to get that sort of stuff.

(1h 26m 35s)

He’s the one that kind of goes and gets budgets for things.

(1h 26m 37s)

So we have like, um, this really has just turned into just talking about life.

(1h 26m 38s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 26m 44s) Al:

So I think we’re probably done with talking about the game.

(1h 26m 48s)

if you, if you, if you don’t want to hear about personal stuff, then you, you, you can go now.

(1h 26m 53s)

Um, We get like some respite care and stuff like that.

(1h 27m)

Not enough, but that’s always the case with these things, right?

(1h 27m 1s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 27m 3s)

No.

(1h 27m 4s) Al:

And they, I mean, his caterers are great.

(1h 27m 8s)

They’re fantastic, but budgets only stretch so far.

(1h 27m 9s) Chelsea:

Oh, that’s great.

(1h 27m 11s)

Yeah, I have, when I was doing home care, I would do respite care for some clients and I felt like I barely saw them.

(1h 27m 18s)

Just because of how far they’re, they’re funding would stretch.

(1h 27m 19s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 27m 22s)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(1h 27m 22s) Chelsea:

And no, seems like it’s a universal problem, unfortunately.

(1h 27m 27s) Al:

It really is.

(1h 27m 28s)

It really is.

(1h 27m 29s)

Um, uh, I don’t I don’t think there is a system that fixes everything with, because I think part of the problem is that these needs can be so complex and, uh, you know, without infinite money.

(1h 27m 42s)

Hey, if only there was a person with infinite money.

(1h 27m 45s)

Um

(1h 27m 46s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 27m 48s) Al:

Uh,

(1h 27m 49s) Chelsea:

I’ll tell you right now, if I was a billionaire, uh, there would be no more World Hanger.

(1h 27m 55s)

I say that so simply, but like I would be, Funding things up and right.

(1h 27m 55s) Al:

Yeah.

(1h 28m)

Yeah, um, I mean, also the fact that money is just a made-up concept that we created, uh, and we still have scarcity of it for some reason.

(1h 28m 9s)

Um,

(1h 28m 10s) Chelsea:

I love how the start of this episode was, Pecopia update.

(1h 28m 16s)

No, this is where we’re at.

(1h 28m 18s) Al:

They were like, burn it down.

(1h 28m 19s) Chelsea:

Yeah, burn the whole system now.

(1h 28m 20s) Al:

No, I, I, I mean, this is the thing, though, this is, I think this is my point is I actually don’t want the systems burnt down because I think the systems do things, and if you burn everything down, things won’t happen, I think that it’s a difficult thing to get to the point where the systems actually work, and I don’t know how you get to that point, but I think trying to recreate everything when you’ve burnt everything down is people are going to get lost again, right?

(1h 28m 48s)

Like, uh, tiny changes that can make massive difference.

(1h 28m 54s)

One thing, so here’s just an example of something that we’re dealing with just now that is an example of tiny changes that don’t affect many people having a massive impact to some people.

(1h 29m 5s)

And I just want to point, I just want to say this year.

(1h 29m 7s)

We are reasonably well off.

(1h 29m 10s)

We are we are fine financially.

(1h 29m 12s)

We do not have a problem.

(1h 29m 13s)

Assuming I continue to have a job.

(1h 29m 15s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 29m 15s)

Yes.

(1h 29m 17s) Al:

So we are not, we are not in a problem because of this chase.

(1h 29m 21s)

But there’s a system in the UK where if you get a certain benefit because of disability, you can get a paid for lease for a car. And you can then have adaptations to that.

(1h 29m 35s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 29m 37s) Al:

Now, the reason we get that is because of Nathan’s, he can’t, he’s, it’s very hard for him to be safe around traffic, and so we get a disabled badge for that, so we can park closer to places, so there’s less chance for him to, you know, run out in front of cars.

(1h 29m 54s)

Um, The, so we, we have a lease on a car through his his disability payments.

(1h 29m 55s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 30m 3s) Al:

But in trying to save money, the UK government has changed how this system works so that you can only drive, I think it’s 10,000 miles a year and then above that, you have to pay a certain amount per mile.

(1h 30m 20s)

This same system is for people who are, you know, disabled and can get around physically and therefore need a car to get around. Why are you charging people for using the car that you’re giving them?

(1h 30m 32s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 30m 32s)

And then you think the amount of appointments and things, like,

(1h 30m 33s) Al:

So, Exactly.

(1h 30m 35s)

Exactly.

(1h 30m 37s)

And and the thing is that like, this change, thank, it doesn’t apply to existing leases and our lease is up in March next year.

(1h 30m 45s)

But it basically means we can’t we can’t do this.

(1h 30m 48s)

Like it would make it financially dreadful for us having to pay for every mile over 10,000.

(1h 30m 53s)

Um, So so from next year, we’re just not going to use that lease anymore and we’re going to have to get a different car.

(1h 30m 54s) Chelsea:

Oh my, that’s, yeah.

(1h 31m 1s) Al:

And the thing is that, like, that isn’t going to be the end of the world for us, but it might have been for someone else who was in our situation and had less money.

(1h 31m 10s) Chelsea:

It could be.

(1h 31m 11s) Al:

Right?

(1h 31m 13s)

Like we’re going to, we’re going to be fine.

(1h 31m 15s)

It’s going to, obviously, it’s going to have a hit to us.

(1h 31m 17s)

We’re going to have less money because of it, but we’re going to be fine, but someone wouldn’t have been.

(1h 31m 21s)

And I think that they don’t, they look at these things and go, oh, this is, this is costing lots of money.

(1h 31m 27s)

We must, we must change it, so it costs less money and it’s like, okay, great.

(1h 31m 31s)

Now someone can’t afford their food.

(1h 31m 32s)

Great.

(1h 31m 33s) Chelsea:

Exactly.

(1h 31m 33s) Al:

Good job.

(1h 31m 34s)

And one of the other things we’re doing about the system is that there are certain cars that, so you pay basically, you don’t pay for the lease, but you pay like an upfront cost depending on the car you get, right?

(1h 31m 47s)

So um, cheaper cars has a lower upfront cost.

(1h 31m 50s)

More expensive cars have a higher upfront cost and then everybody gets the lease paid for them.

(1h 31m 51s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 31m 56s) Al:

Um, The thing about this is they, they, people were apparently really annoyed that you could get expensive cars on this system.

(1h 32m 5s)

But 2 things.

(1h 32m 6s)

One, if you get an expensive car, you pay more upfront, right?

(1h 32m 10s)

You’re paying for a more expensive car.

(1h 32m 10s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 32m 12s) Al:

Hey, that’s how buying a car works.

(1h 32m 16s) Chelsea:

Regardless of the situation, that’s what it’s gonna be.

(1h 32m 16s) Al:

Exactly.

(1h 32m 18s)

Like, I don’t, it’s not like you’re saying, oh, I’m going to get a Jaguar for no extra money.

(1h 32m 18s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 32m 23s) Al:

You’re like, no, I’m going to, I want to get a Jaguar and I’m going to pay the extra money on top of what it would have given me so that I can get the car that I want.

(1h 32m 31s)

And two, just because someone’s disabled doesn’t mean they don’t get to have a nice car.

(1h 32m 35s)

Like…

(1h 32m 35s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 32m 36s)

I need to think like these these cars have like comfort feature, safety features that you may want to invest in.

(1h 32m 42s) Al:

Yeah, like I just, I don’t, I don’t understand this concept of like, oh, you are disabled and getting benefits and therefore we’re paying a certain amount to get you a car.

(1h 32m 45s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 32m 49s) Al:

You’re not allowed to pay more money to get a nicer car.

(1h 32m 52s)

I just, I don’t understand.

(1h 32m 53s) Chelsea:

No, exactly.

(1h 32m 53s)

Like.

(1h 32m 54s) Al:

We didn’t.

(1h 32m 55s)

We got the cheapest car we could possibly get because we don’t care about cars.

(1h 32m 58s)

We just, we wanted specifically a 7 seater car because another thing about Nathan is that sometimes he can have real problems with being near people and that turns into physical violence.

(1h 33m 9s)

And so he needs to be not next to people in a car.

(1h 33m 9s) Chelsea:

Okay.

(1h 33m 13s) Al:

So we need to have a 7 seater because otherwise he would be next to Craig and we don’t want that to happen.

(1h 33m 18s)

We want to have 2 children.

(1h 33m 20s) Chelsea:

No.

(1h 33m 21s) Al:

We want to continue having 2 children.

(1h 33m 23s) Chelsea:

Yes.

(1h 33m 24s) Al:

Um, and so that’s why we, so that’s why we have a 7 seat term.

(1h 33m 24s) Chelsea:

Plus, when you’re driving as well.

(1h 33m 28s) Al:

Yeah, well, yeah, no, absolutely.

(1h 33m 30s)

We’ve had we’ve had incidents.

(1h 33m 33s)

Only one involving the police.

(1h 33m 36s)

Thankfully, most of the others didn’t end up being anymore, but we did have one.

(1h 33m 37s) Chelsea:

Oh, just one.

(1h 33m 42s) Al:

Everyone was safe.

(1h 33m 44s)

Nobody was injured.

(1h 33m 46s)

Um, but yeah, uh, we, so we need a 7 seater.

(1h 33m 50s)

So we literally got the cheapest 7 seater week car we could because we don’t care about that.

(1h 33m 54s)

But like if someone wants to pay more money to get a more expensive car, why shouldn’t they be allowed that?

(1h 33m 59s)

Like, it’s not costing the taxpayer more money?

(1h 34m 2s)

It just looks bad if you care about that.

(1h 34m 5s)

Right?

(1h 34m 6s)

But like, oh, this person’s getting an expensive car on benefits.

(1h 34m 7s) Chelsea:

True.

(1h 34m 10s) Al:

It’s like, no, they’re not.

(1h 34m 11s)

They’re getting a certain amount paid and then they are paying more to get the more expensive car.

(1h 34m 12s) Chelsea:

No, they still pay.

(1h 34m 16s) Al:

That’s not the same thing.

(1h 34m 17s)

But no, they cut that off completely.

(1h 34m 18s)

So you now can’t get those cars full stop.

(1h 34m 19s) Chelsea:

Oh my goodness.

(1h 34m 20s)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(1h 34m 22s)

I don’t know, in Ontario, um, I don’t have personal experience with it, from what I’ve heard.

(1h 34m 29s)

So to get any disability benefit at all, I could be completely wrong, but what I’ve heard is if you’re married, you lose your disability benefit benefit, like completely.

(1h 34m 38s) Al:

Oh, of course, yes, because married people couldn’t possibly still be disabled and like… That is mad.

(1h 34m 38s) Chelsea:

So people.

(1h 34m 43s)

Exactly.

(1h 34m 44s)

So people literally, It’s crazy.

(1h 34m 47s)

So people will get divorced, quote unquote, legally, to be able to have, or just never get married.

(1h 34m 54s)

And it’s just, what are we doing?

(1h 34m 56s)

What are we doing here?

(1h 34m 59s) Al:

Oh, dear.

(1h 35m)

We have the fun thing.

(1h 35m 1s)

is not specific to disability benefits, but we have the fun thing here where some benefits will be based on you as an individual and some will be based on you and your partner.

(1h 35m 12s)

Um, and it always seems to work out the wrong way for us because I work and Ronan doesn’t work.

(1h 35m 19s)

She was a teacher.

(1h 35m 21s)

Well, she is, she’s not a practicer.

(1h 35m 25s)

Um, she was a teacher for quite a few years and then decided to, she took a career break to help with Nathan and then uh, went back to work and went, no, I think I’m done with working now and um, uh, and uh, uh, now does a lot of stuff, just none of it paid.

(1h 35m 35s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 35m 41s) Al:

Actually, that’s not true.

(1h 35m 43s)

She does actually get.

(1h 35m 46s) Chelsea:

But yeah, you have to strip your entire career around.

(1h 35m 46s) Al:

Um, So, I, well, it’s the thing.

(1h 35m 51s)

I, like, again, I am not complaining about the amount of money we have.

(1h 35m 55s)

We are very well off.

(1h 35m 56s)

However, I am the one that earns the vast majority of our money, and so there are benefits that she can’t get because of that.

(1h 36m 4s)

But if we earned the same amount of money, but split across the 2 of us, there are benefits that we would be able to get then that we can’t get now.

(1h 36m 5s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 36m 14s)

Make it make sense.

(1h 36m 16s)

There’s always have there always has to be some loophole.

(1h 36m 17s) Al:

So.

(1h 36m 18s)

Yeah, but we don’t get to, so this is the thing.

(1h 36m 20s)

We have to combine our amounts to get certain benefits, but we don’t get to combine our amounts for all the tax benefits, right?

(1h 36m 27s) Chelsea:

Oh no, I’m, yeah, I’m agreeing with you, saying like, why couldn’t they just value it?

(1h 36m 27s) Al:

Like all the…

(1h 36m 31s)

Yeah, it’s it’s it’s like make your mind up.

(1h 36m 33s)

Either combine it or don’t combine it.

(1h 36m 35s)

Don’t do this annoying half and half.

(1h 36m 37s)

That means we lose 100% of the time.

(1h 36m 39s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 36m 42s) Al:

Anyway, whatever.

(1h 36m 43s)

I’m not truly complaining about my financial situation.

(1h 36m 46s)

It’s just the whole, the everything, the everything.

(1h 36m 50s)

Yes.

(1h 36m 50s) Chelsea:

The everything.

(1h 36m 51s) Al:

All right.

(1h 36m 53s)

I think we’re done.

(1h 36m 54s)

Are we done?

(1h 36m 55s) Chelsea:

Oh my gosh.

(1h 36m 55s) Al:

Anything else to talk about?

(1h 36m 56s) Chelsea:

I’m just thinking, uh, so finding your words, or find your words is a game.

(1h 37m 4s) Al:

Go play this game.

(1h 37m 5s) Chelsea:

Go play this game.

(1h 37m 5s) Al:

is a great game.

(1h 37m 6s)

It does not take long.

(1h 37m 7s) Chelsea:

It was very good and it will make you think of society.

(1h 37m 11s)

Um,

(1h 37m 12s)

The way we just explained it, and maybe you will feel some type of way about it.

(1h 37m 17s) Al:

Yeah, it’s always good to walk some, walk in someone’s shoes for a bit.

(1h 37m 22s)

Even if it’s not something, like, you may have never actually encountered someone who’s non-verbal.

(1h 37m 35s) Chelsea:

Well, you think about it.

(1h 37m 35s)

You play fantasy games.

(1h 37m 36s)

You’re never going to be an elf.

(1h 37m 38s)

Well, you might be.

(1h 37m 40s) Al:

Speak for yourself.

(1h 37m 40s) Chelsea:

don’t know.

(1h 37m 41s)

Well, hey, what can I say?

(1h 37m 44s) Al:

All right, Chelsea, thank you for joining me on this podcast.

Outro

(1h 37m 47s) Al:

Is there anything you would like to share with the audience?

(1h 37m 50s) Chelsea:

Um, I don’t really have social media.

(1h 37m 52s)

I have Instagram.

(1h 37m 53s)

Um, at Zelda Greenflea, where I mostly post uh, concerts I go to.

(1h 37m 58s)

Um, but I’m looking.

(1h 37m 59s) Al:

Nice.

(1h 38m)

What was your most recent one?

(1h 38m 2s) Chelsea:

Most recent one.

(1h 38m 3s)

We saw Triumph, which is a Canadian, like legendary Canadian rock man.

(1h 38m 8s)

Um, my husband’s favourite band.

(1h 38m 11s)

They broke up the year that he was born.

(1h 38m 13s)

So he had never seen them.

(1h 38m 14s) Al:

Oh.

(1h 38m 15s) Chelsea:

They never toured and then they did a, an anniversary reunion tour, um, the day before his birthday, they came to our city.

(1h 38m 23s)

So that was the easiest birthday gift ever.

(1h 38m 25s)

Um, so that was our most recent show and I just love concerts and music and As my children get a little bit older, I’m kind of starting to find myself again.

(1h 38m 26s) Al:

Cool.

(1h 38m 35s) Chelsea:

So I might be posting some music stuff of my own there and some gaming stuff.

(1h 38m 39s)

Um,

(1h 38m 40s)

But yeah, you can find me on Discord too.

(1h 38m 42s)

Uh, yeah, I’m always around somewhere.

(1h 38m 47s) Al:

Nice.

(1h 38m 47s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 38m 48s) Al:

Um, I actually, I had to.

(1h 38m 52s)

Do you listen to the 99% invisible podcast at all?

(1h 38m 55s) Chelsea:

I,

(1h 38m 55s) Al:

Very good podcast.

(1h 38m 57s)

I enjoy it.

(1h 38m 58s)

I will mention it, any opportunity.

(1h 38m 58s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 38m 59s)

Okay.

(1h 38m 59s) Al:

It’s about design and like the hidden design of things.

(1h 39m 2s)

But they sometimes they sometimes cover other things and they recently covered, I can’t remember what it was called, but there’s the Canadian music regulations around how much airtime.

(1h 39m 3s) Chelsea:

Oh.

(1h 39m 16s)

Oh, Cancon.

(1h 39m 16s) Al:

Yeah, that’s what it is.

(1h 39m 19s) Chelsea:

Yeah.

(1h 39m 19s) Al:

And it was very interesting learning about that.

(1h 39m 23s) Chelsea:

Yeah, I know we have some bands that are huge here, and then you talk to someone else.

(1h 39m 26s)

They’re like, who?

(1h 39m 27s)

It’s like, oh, they have the number one song in Canada right now, and they’re like, I don’t know who you were talking about.

(1h 39m 32s) Al:

I don’t think that’s unusual.

(1h 39m 33s)

I did, that was one of the things they talked about in the podcast.

(1h 39m 36s)

I don’t think that’s unusual for anyone except Americans.

(1h 39m 38s)

Um, you know, it’s like, you know, one of the um, one of the big films uh, from last year was uh, the Robbie Williams biopic and like nobody in, almost nobody in America knows who he is, but like here, he is incredibly famous.

(1h 39m 55s)

You know, I think that’s, I think that’s not unusual having famous people in your country and not elsewhere unless you’re in America.

(1h 39m 56s) Chelsea:

Right.

(1h 40m 3s) Al:

Because if you’re American famous, you’re everywhere again.

(1h 40m 4s) Chelsea:

Wow.

(1h 40m 5s)

That’s true.

(1h 40m 7s)

That’s true, yeah.

(1h 40m 8s)

No, all of our radio.

(1h 40m 9s) Al:

Luckily for the rest of us, we have to have all their famous people as well.

(1h 40m 13s) Chelsea:

Oh man.

(1h 40m 15s)

But yes, sorry, I’m not a big social media person, but, um, I’m around on Slack and Discord and, Yeah.

(1h 40m 24s)

I stick with my close group.

(1h 40m 27s) Al:

You can find the podcast on Tumblr and on Blue Sky at THS Pod.

(1h 40m 30s)

You can send us feedback there or from our website, harvestseason.club.

(1h 40m 34s)

Ah, what do we want them to tell us this episode?

(1h 40m 38s)

If you could describe the podcast with only 2 symbols from Find Your Words.

(1h 40m 45s)

What symbols would you?

(1h 40m 47s) Chelsea:

Oh my goodness.

(1h 40m 49s)

See, now people have to go look at the game.

(1h 40m 51s)

And see what symbols there are.

(1h 40m 52s) Al:

See what I did there.

(1h 40m 54s) Chelsea:

And then while you’re there, you might as well play it because it’s a great game.

(1h 40m 57s) Al:

Also on the website, you can find links to everything to do with the podcast, including our Patreon, patreon.com slash THS pod, where you can get access to our Slack and talk to everyone in there.

(1h 41m 6s)

Also get access to our bonus episodes of the podcast.

(1h 41m 11s)

Just released one.

(1h 41m 12s)

Me and Kevin talking about Summer Game Fest as a whole, excluding the Swift Nintendo Direct, which happened after we recorded it.

(1h 41m 21s)

But I’m sure we’ll do another one of those at some point.

(1h 41m 26s)

Yeah, I think that’s everything.

(1h 41m 28s)

Thank you, Chelsea again for joining me.

(1h 41m 30s) Chelsea:

Thank you for having me and for this therapy session and Next time I, hopefully if I can come on again, we’ll do a, uh, a different type of session podcast.

(1h 41m 41s) Al:

I mean, I mean, that’s the secret, is I do the podcast so I can, you know, talk to…

(1h 41m 48s) Chelsea:

Aw.

(1h 41m 48s)

That’s when I.

(1h 41m 50s) Al:

Thank you listeners for listening, and until next time.

(1h 41m 53s)

Have a good harvest.

(1h 41m 54s) Chelsea:

Have a good harvest.

(1h 42m) Theme Tune:

The harvest season is created by Al McKinley, with support from our patrons, including our pro farmers, Kevin, Stewart, and Elisa.

(1h 42m 9s)

Our art is done by Mike the Brave, and our music is done by Nick Burgess.

(1h 42m 14s)

Feel free to visit our website, harvestseason.club for show notes and links to things we discussed in this episode.

(1h 42m 30s) Al:

Fun times.

(1h 42m 32s) Chelsea:

I’m so sorry if that sucked.

(1h 42m 34s)

I’ve never done a podcast in my life

(1h 42m 35s) Al:

No, no, no, no, don’t.

(1h 42m 37s)

No, I think it was, it was good.

(1h 42m 38s)

Um, It’s uh, it’s a lot.

(1h 42m 43s) Chelsea:

It’s a heavy subject no matter who it would be, so.

(1h 42m 46s) Al:

Yeah.

Made with Transcriptionist

The Harvest Season

Therapy Session

Timings

Links

Contact

Transcript

Theme Tune

Intro

What Have We Been Up To

Game News

Danchi Days

Loftia

Dave The Diver

Farming Camp

Super Farming Boy

Pokopia

Cozy Caravan

New Games

One Piece: Grand Gourmet

Everbloom

Beastro

Find Your Words

Outro