Neighbourvania
Wed, Oct 23, 2024 Year 2, Winter 17Kevin talks about a new name for farming games
Timings
00:00:00: Theme Tune
00:00:30: Intro
00:02:45: What Has Kevin Been Up To
00:09:05: The News
00:18:23: Neighbourvanias
00:43:09: Outro
Links
Petit Island Release
Mika and the Witch’s Mountain First Update
Travelers Rest “Beekeeping and Irrigation” Update
Lightyear Frontier “Mech-o-Lantern” Update
Fields of Mistria First Update
Contact
Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot
Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot
Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/
Transcript
(0:00:30) Kev: Good evening, farmers, and welcome to another edition of The Harvest Season, where we update
(0:00:36) Kev: you on all the latest news and coverage of all things Cottagecore.
(0:00:40) Kev: My name is Kevin Lonelyman, and with me is no one else.
(0:00:45) Kev: Doo-doo-doo-doo!
(0:00:46) Kev: Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo!
(0:00:47) Kev: Hello, everyone, welcome to The Harvest Season.
(0:00:52) Kev: I’m Kevin, and I’m flying this one solo today.
(0:00:55) Kev: Unfortunately, which is just one of those events where schedules got kinda crazy and
(0:01:00) Kev: Cody, unfortunately, who was going to be with me, ended up feeling not very well today.
(0:01:05) Kev: So, unfortunately, I am just piling you this one without her as of right now.
(0:01:12) Kev: So, welcome to the Harvest Season as usual.
(0:01:16) Kev: We’ve got our links, show notes, transcripts, all that good stuff on the website.
(0:01:24) Kev: And yeah, strap in because today we are, I think…
(0:01:30) Kev: This is a first for us, so we are going to do a response episode to a YouTube video.
(0:01:36) Kev: I mean, really, all our episodes aren’t responses, aren’t they?
(0:01:41) Kev: But, you know how the YouTube fare goes, you’ve got the clickbaity title and the clickbaity thumbnail.
(0:01:52) Kev: And that’s what we’re doing.
(0:01:54) Kev: So, specifically, there was a video recently posted by…
(0:02:00) Kev: What was the name?
(0:02:02) Kev: Salamence, yes, three weeks ago.
(0:02:06) Kev: And in this video, which is entitled “Why are farming games called Stardew Valley ‘rip-offs’?”
(0:02:15) Kev: He coins a new term called ‘Neighborvania’, and it’s about a 15 minute video, not terribly long.
(0:02:23) Kev: So, I invite you guys to check it out, you know, to get context for this discussion.
(0:02:30) Kev: But we’ll get to that later.
(0:02:33) Kev: Before that, as usual, we have various news and updates and things to introduce or to bring out and discuss.
(0:02:44) Kev: But before that, even, I guess I’ll chatter a bit here as to what I’ve been up to.
(0:02:51) Kev: So, let’s see here. First of all, I guess I’ve been continuing my little art challenge of September.
(0:03:00) Kev: Whatever you want to call it, it’s a pixel art challenge, and I’ve been making a sprite or so every day.
(0:03:11) Kev: The theme is monster making as in Pokemon monster making, so making my little fake Mondex, which has been fun.
(0:03:18) Kev: Video game-wise and whatnot, I’ve been playing the usuals, but a lot of exciting things have been going on, I think.
(0:03:27) Kev: So, for instance, Marvel’s Snap has introduced
(0:03:30) Kev: the high voltage mode recently, which has been a fun update.
(0:03:35) Kev: So, for people who don’t know, Marvel’s Snap is–the games are very fast-paced.
(0:03:41) Kev: It’s only six turns, a 12-car deck.
(0:03:44) Kev: Every turn you get one energy, two energy, three energy, so on and so forth.
(0:03:48) Kev: And, you know, you’re playing cards to get as many points as you can on three locations.
(0:03:53) Kev: So, yeah, they’re generally pretty quick games, five minutes or so, I’d say.
(0:03:57) Kev: But they upped that up even more.
(0:04:00) Kev: In the High Voltage mode that was added, so this one cuts the game in half into three turns, but to compensate for that, instead of one additional energy per turn, you are given a variable amount of energy per turn.
(0:04:18) Kev: And you draw two cards instead of one, so you actually will see the same amount of cards as you would in a regular game.
(0:04:25) Kev: Um, it’s a very entertaining mode in my opinion because it turns a f-
(0:04:30) Kev: space game into even quicker, um, and the, you know, the nature of the deck building and all that stuff changes.
(0:04:37) Kev: Um, so I personally have been having a lot of fun. I always enjoy attempts at new modes and putting new spins on the game.
(0:04:44) Kev: Um, not always successful, but I think this one is pretty solid.
(0:04:49) Kev: Um, yeah, so that’s Marvel Snap. Good stuff.
(0:04:52) Kev: Um, aside from that, I’ve been playing Pokemon Unite as per normal.
(0:04:57) Kev: normal.
(0:05:00) Kev: In particular, Darkrai has come out because, you know, Halloween spooky season, so we’re getting our spooky Pokemon, is a speedster who runs around and puts Pokemon asleep and attacking them and so on, as expected.
(0:05:13) Kev: But perhaps more excited I am than by Darkrai is the, a lot of rumors and leaks supposedly have been dropping, so I’m looking forward to them. If you don’t want to hear about it, close your, you know, cover your ears for a minute or so.
(0:05:30) Kev: But in particular there’s three names that are dropped.
(0:05:34) Kev: Psyduck is supposedly coming, which will be a supporter that will likely sort of confuse
(0:05:40) Kev: and disable opponents.
(0:05:43) Kev: Very much looking forward to that with all the funny animations, I’m sure will come with
(0:05:47) Kev: that.
(0:05:48) Kev: It looks like Tinkaton from Scarlet and Violet will be dropping, which I’m very excited about
(0:05:55) Kev: and has felt long overdue.
(0:05:57) Kev: There was a mode in Unite called …
(0:06:01) Kev: Panic Parade, which is a sort of tower defense mode
(0:06:05) Kev: We protect a Tinkaton actually who had does have its own abilities and animation
(0:06:10) Kev: So it really felt like there was a skull in there already for a Pokemon to be added in game
(0:06:15) Kev: And so hopefully that is very much the case
(0:06:19) Kev: and lastly we are supposedly getting Galarian Rapidash on the
(0:06:25) Kev: magical unicorn variant of everyone’s favorite fire horse from Kanto
(0:06:30) Kev: I
(0:06:32) Kev: When I’m big fan of Galarian Rapidash, I like when Pokemon evolve and they get angry
(0:06:38) Kev: Which yeah, Galarian Rapidash always has a very
(0:06:43) Kev: Angry expression on it
(0:06:46) Kev: Yeah, again all these are rumors and leaks so you know taking out the grain of salt
(0:06:50) Kev: But if they are true, I’m very much looking forward to them
(0:06:54) Kev: So that’s yeah, that’s Pokemon Unite. That’s great
(0:06:57) Kev: Um, and then lastly, uh, is in the zone zero.
(0:07:00) Kev: I continue to, you know, grind through it daily and, and enjoy my time with it.
(0:07:05) Kev: Um, just this week we had, um, a new character added, Bernice.
(0:07:11) Kev: Um, she is a, uh, from the Sons of Caledon faction, a biker gang.
(0:07:18) Kev: Um, and, uh, she’s quite a lot of fun in terms of gameplay and as a character.
(0:07:24) Kev: Uh, she is a quote unquote fuel expert, which is a,
(0:07:30) Kev: a reference to both her, uh, expertise as a mechanic, uh, and, and working with cars
(0:07:37) Kev: and, and motorbikes and whatnot.
(0:07:39) Kev: Um, but also she is a expert in fuel for humans as she is a bartender and, and
(0:07:46) Kev: likes to mix drinks and, and whatnot.
(0:07:48) Kev: Um, she’s very fun, bubbly, excuse me, very fun, bubbly, uh, very positive.
(0:07:55) Kev: And, uh, uh, but our gameplay wise, she packs two flamethrowers.
(0:08:00) Kev: Um, so, which, you know, uh, quite a contrast to her super bubbly and cheery
(0:08:05) Kev: uh, personality, she’s lighting stuff on fire.
(0:08:08) Kev: Um, and it is a lot of fun.
(0:08:10) Kev: Um, and I think best of all with her release is actually just
(0:08:14) Kev: a piece of promotional material.
(0:08:16) Kev: Um, they, uh, they’re so, as you can imagine, they drop character trailers
(0:08:22) Kev: and character demos, uh, for showcasing their gameplay and whatnot.
(0:08:27) Kev: But for Bernays, they did a little different.
(0:08:30) Kev: The video entitled “Bernays’s Gameplay Demo” is actually just a music video, showing off some rather banger of a tune for Bernays and quite an amusing and entertaining animated music video.
(0:08:49) Kev: I highly encourage people to look it up just to hear the banger and then get a kick out of the character, because it is a lot of fun.
(0:08:57) Kev: So yeah, that’s roughly what I’ve been up to lately.
(0:09:01) Kev: And so with that, I think we can move on over to the news.
(0:09:09) Kev: So let’s see here, as usual, we have a handful of updates.
(0:09:14) Kev: First off, we’re going to start off with Petite Island,
(0:09:18) Kev: which we’ll be releasing on November 14th on Steam.
(0:09:24) Kev: Very exciting.
(0:09:26) Kev: Uh, so, Petite Island, uh, is a…
(0:09:31) Kev: I would call it something but somewhere between animal crossing and maybe a short hike it’s a full 3d
(0:09:39) Kev: Cell-shaded very cutesy sort of game. You play as a little cat anthropomorphic cat named Lily, right on the island
(0:09:47) Kev: inhabited by very animal crossing esque
(0:09:50) Kev: Animal villagers, you can run around go fishing take photographs
(0:09:56) Kev: Ride on animals and explore the island so on and so forth
(0:09:59) Kev: for the next video.
(0:10:01) Kev: They dropped a trailer for that on their Steam page.
(0:10:03) Kev: And yeah, it has a lot of those hallmarks.
(0:10:05) Kev: One thing I find particularly, I think, charming.
(0:10:10) Kev: So, despite the characters all being animals themselves,
(0:10:16) Kev: they are still animals that you can ride on and interact with.
(0:10:20) Kev: But they’re differentiated by being, more or less,
(0:10:25) Kev: designed to look like fruits and other food items.
(0:10:30) Kev: a llama you can ride on, but there is one that looks like a llama popping out of a strawberry
(0:10:36) Kev: or a llama popping out of a banana peel. There are cows that I think are colored to look
(0:10:42) Kev: more or less like potatoes. I think that’s what they’re going for, or different fruits.
(0:10:46) Kev: I think that’s maybe more like a mango or apple color. And then on the cover art there
(0:10:51) Kev: is a turtle that has a watermelon shell with a red skin tone. Very cute and clever way
(0:10:59) Kev: way, I think, to, uh…
(0:11:00) Kev: still be able to use those animals that aren’t, uh, anthropomorphized and whatnot.
(0:11:06) Kev: Um, so, again, that’s dropping, uh, in less than a month on November 14th, uh, this year on, uh, Steam!
(0:11:16) Kev: Um, and you can go check it out, uh, the Steam page is up with all that trailer and other information.
(0:11:22) Kev: Um, next up, uh, we have an update for, uh, game that you all know that I’m…
(0:11:30) Kev: very fond of, Mika and the Witches Mountain!
(0:11:32) Kev: Our first content update will be dropping on October 28th, less than a week after, uh, the release of this episode.
(0:11:40) Kev: Um, there apparently will be two new minigames, something involving churros and one involving kitties,
(0:11:48) Kev: a crow of some kind, and, uh, more achievements for in-game.
(0:11:54) Kev: Um, unfortunately, the post is on the Kickstarter website and backers only, uh, as…
(0:12:00) Kev: I am not a backer, I cannot, uh, see the full details, but I am just going off, uh, Al’s notes here.
(0:12:08) Kev: Um, but, uh, uh, you know, as you can listen to the episode, I’m a very big fan of Mika,
(0:12:14) Kev: so any new content will be welcomed because I think that’s maybe the only big shortcoming it has that it could have used a little more to pad it out.
(0:12:24) Kev: And, um, you know, I’m confident that this will be enjoyable, so, uh, keep your eyes, uh…
(0:12:30) Kev: peeled and, uh, keep a lookout for, you know, any updates that we might bring to that.
(0:12:36) Kev: And again, that it will be on October 28th.
(0:12:38) Kev: Uh, next up on updates, uh, unfortunately, uh, we don’t have Cody who is… will be here to bemoan this one with me.
(0:12:46) Kev: Uh, Traveler’s Rest, the, uh, in-keeping simu… Stardew Valley-esque simulator, um,
(0:12:54) Kev: will be ha- as added an update for, uh, quote-unquote, beekeeping and irrigation, so…
(0:13:00) Kev: there you go, C- I’m sure Cody’s already having a reaction.
(0:13:06) Kev: Um, uh, it’s- it’s fairly straightforward, uh, the beekeeping is done in so many other games,
(0:13:12) Kev: like, uh, Graveyard Keeper, which I think is so very comparable to Traveler’s Rest,
(0:13:18) Kev: uh, in terms of its gameplay and its aesthetic.
(0:13:22) Kev: Um, but yeah, you can raise bees and hides, collect wax for candles, um, honey for foods, and so on and so forth,
(0:13:32) Kev: um, and irrigation for crops, um, which is somewhat shocking, as I would have expected.
(0:13:38) Kev: There already to be some sort of, you know, automated sprinkler system, um, seems like a staple/no-brainer
(0:13:44) Kev: for anything with a, you know, significant farming system, but, uh, uh, better late than ever, I guess.
(0:13:52) Kev: But, uh, but yeah, again, that is out now, um, uh, so the- yeah, uh, go check it out.
(0:14:02) Kev: And, uh, let’s see here, speaking of things that are out now, uh, Lightyear Frontier,
(0:14:08) Kev: the “mecha farming game,” quote-unquote, uh, has released a small content update,
(0:14:18) Kev: the “mech-o-lantern,” as they call it, a free skin for your- the mecha to be, you know,
(0:14:24) Kev: Halloween spooky themed, it looks something like a jack-o-lantern.
(0:14:28) Kev: I am actually quite fond of the design they went with.
(0:14:32) Kev: I haven’t kept up with the development, so I don’t know how much they’ve been improving mechanically or gameplay-wise on the mecha.
(0:14:40) Kev: But the design, the visuals of it, I think are very solid overall.
(0:14:46) Kev: And this is a very fun look on it.
(0:14:48) Kev: And also a cool idea just to have these sort of skins for the mecha in general.
(0:14:52) Kev: Yeah, if anyone’s playing that, I think that’s definitely a nice touch.
(0:14:58) Kev: touch.
(0:15:00) Kev: You can see the Steam page as this game is on the early access.
(0:15:06) Kev: They also have an FAQ for some other content updates and stuff that people have had.
(0:15:10) Kev: So you can check that out.
(0:15:16) Kev: Here’s hoping that when they do hit 1.0 if they do, that it will look quite nice.
(0:15:22) Kev: And hopefully it will be a big upgrade from when we first saw it.
(0:15:26) Kev: But, uh, so I’ll, uh, I’m definitely keeping
(0:15:32) Kev: for it, looking forward to it. Let’s see here. Next up, we have an update from Fields of
(0:15:40) Kev: Mystia, the very Stardew Valley-esque game, also inspired by what feels like 90’s sort
(0:15:48) Kev: of anime aesthetic. The big news is that the game is now available in Early Access, which
(0:15:59) Kev: Which is indeed a big one.
(0:16:02) Kev: Wait, no, I’m sorry. The game has already been out in early access. I miss reading an older blog post here.
(0:16:14) Kev: Good for me. I apologize. The first major update for this early access is dropping on November 18th, tentatively, at least that’s their date.
(0:16:28) Kev: And that update will be
(0:16:32) Kev: including a
(0:16:35) Kev: Basically a little more of everything they’re adding to a little more to all the different segments in the game for instance
(0:16:43) Kev: Villagers and romanceables will have
(0:16:47) Kev: new heart events and such
(0:16:50) Kev: You can you from the can go from four to six hearts
(0:16:56) Kev: As in there, you know social links or what have you
(0:17:00) Kev: There will be new enemies.
(0:17:02) Kev: Drops from enemies in the dungeon.
(0:17:06) Kev: Um…
(0:17:08) Kev: So, look forward to that.
(0:17:10) Kev: Um…
(0:17:12) Kev: There will be…
(0:17:13) Kev: Tch-tch.
(0:17:14) Kev: Um…
(0:17:15) Kev: All skill caps and skill perks, I’m not sure what that means.
(0:17:19) Kev: Um…
(0:17:19) Kev: There will be the town-renowned cap, which will be raised by 20 levels, which I presume is the sort of, you know, community-centered-esque objectives.
(0:17:29) Kev: Um…
(0:17:32) Kev: Which includes rewards for museums, and new board quests, and things like that.
(0:17:38) Kev: Um…
(0:17:38) Kev: And of course, there’s additional home upgrades, and cosmetics, and so on and so forth.
(0:17:45) Kev: Um…
(0:17:46) Kev: You know, so, you know, a lot of, like I said, a little bit of everything being added.
(0:17:51) Kev: Um…
(0:17:52) Kev: Again, that will be dropping, uh, tentatively on November 18th.
(0:17:56) Kev: Um…
(0:17:57) Kev: They also, uh…
(0:17:59) Kev: dropped the uh… uh…
(0:18:02) Kev: some other items that they’re working on and
(0:18:05) Kev: sort of future road map updates um…
(0:18:08) Kev: no uh… tentative dates on those as of right now
(0:18:11) Kev: um…
(0:18:13) Kev: but uh… yeah you can go on the website and check out uh… all those details if
(0:18:17) Kev: you are curious
(0:18:19) Kev: uh… so yeah uh… I think that’s roughly covers all the news
(0:18:23) Kev: and it is rather
(0:18:24) Kev: fitting that uh… fields of mistia was our
(0:18:27) Kev: last news item because I think that serves as a great
(0:18:32) Kev: jumping off point to the
(0:18:33) Kev: uh… topic at hand the uh…
(0:18:37) Kev: stardew valley ripoff
(0:18:38) Kev: video or what have you
(0:18:40) Kev: uh… as the
(0:18:43) Kev: fields uh… as this uh…
(0:18:45) Kev: youtuber salmons
(0:18:47) Kev: is that correct salmons
(0:18:48) Kev: yes salmons not salmons salmons not the pokemon legally distinct
(0:18:54) Kev: uh… they created a video because uh… apparently they’ve been covering fields
(0:18:58) Kev: of mistia
(0:18:59) Kev: and they’ve been getting a lot of uh…
(0:19:02) Kev: uh… I think comments and feedback
(0:19:04) Kev: and we’re you know comparing it to a
(0:19:06) Kev: stardew valley ripoff uh…
(0:19:08) Kev: and so it’s uh… fifteen minute video not terribly long I encourage you guys to
(0:19:13) Kev: maybe watch it to get some context for the discussion here
(0:19:17) Kev: um…
(0:19:18) Kev: and uh… I mean I watched myself worked on a few notes
(0:19:23) Kev: and
(0:19:24) Kev: it is just one
(0:19:26) Kev: person making their own thoughts and whatnot right so it’s this isn’t like a
(0:19:32) Kev: uh…
(0:19:33) Kev: you know it’s not a dialogue between people or discussion or whatever right
(0:19:36) Kev: to get other opinions or perspectives so
(0:19:39) Kev: i’m trying to be mindful of that and and here I am you know doing the same thing
(0:19:43) Kev: just my whole thoughts on this but uh…
(0:19:45) Kev: I had a lot of issue with the video itself um…
(0:19:50) Kev: or not
(0:19:52) Kev: as unlike the production or whatever but what the points he’s raising in the video
(0:19:56) Kev: so one of the first uh…
(0:19:58) Kev: uh… issues are have off the bat
(0:20:02) Kev: is um… how he cut sort of sets the context for how what’s the frame the
(0:20:06) Kev: discussion
(0:20:07) Kev: uh… and there’s two big points first off
(0:20:11) Kev: uh…
(0:20:12) Kev: he seems to this
(0:20:14) Kev: youtuber seems to say that uh…
(0:20:18) Kev: because there’s so many of these stardew valley clones rip off so I wanna call it uh…
(0:20:22) Kev: the term stardew valley killer that uh…
(0:20:25) Kev: right um… that you know replacing it or whatnot and and he’s
(0:20:30) Kev: contesting this concept as a
(0:20:32) Kev: whole because in a
(0:20:34) Kev: He says that it’s not, say, some sort of online multiplayer game that can die if it’s not
(0:20:41) Kev: played or whatever, and that there’s room for all of these different games.
(0:20:46) Kev: And I mean, in a very, in a sort of objective sense, yes, that’s technically correct, but
(0:20:52) Kev: at the same time, like, no one has the, even us on this show who covers these games, we
(0:21:00) Kev: We don’t have the attention, energy, so on and so forth to
(0:21:04) Kev: give all these games the time and energy. The bigger ones, the better ones will, I think, and rightfully so, get the
(0:21:12) Kev: you know, the lion’s share of limelight and attention, much like Stardew Valley did, right?
(0:21:18) Kev: That is why Stardew Valley is a bar that influenced this whole genre and whatnot.
(0:21:30) Kev: And so to kind of, you know…
(0:21:34) Kev: I think that there is still a limit to the time and energy people have, and so it will end up in comparison to Stardew Valley because of that.
(0:21:48) Kev: So yeah, I don’t agree with that whole sentiment, like there’s room for all of these games and whatnot.
(0:21:56) Kev: Obviously yes, they can all exist, but they are entering an arena, in my opinion.
(0:22:00) Kev: And speaking of which
(0:22:04) Kev: Already, I think one of the biggest red flags of the video is up front. He’s
(0:22:08) Kev: He mentions that he’s not bringing up harvest moon as part of this discussion as in the original harvest moon
(0:22:16) Kev: Yeah, you know it’s more or less
(0:22:21) Kev: Highlighting how it’s been like what some 20 years or so between the original harvest moon and the Stardew Valley’s release
(0:22:28) Kev: And so like each doesn’t even feel like it’s part of the discussion which I think is is just
(0:22:34) Kev: Absolutely bonkers, um because Stardew Valley and and he does
(0:22:39) Kev: Know acknowledge on the video that it was inspired by harvest moon
(0:22:42) Kev: But it’s it’s not just more than that like it’s your one-to-one direct and it’s not like
(0:22:47) Kev: those games have gone anywhere story of seasons or the harvest moon brand where we want to call it are both very much alive and
(0:22:54) Kev: well, and they
(0:22:57) Kev: They set the tone like they set the standards that Stardew hopped off
(0:23:02) Kev: like
(0:23:04) Kev: Stardew Valley
(0:23:06) Kev: You know saying Stardew Valley is the the standard the bar whatever like without acknowledging that
(0:23:13) Kev: Acknowledging excuse me without acknowledging that all that is in harvest moon and comes from harvest moon. I think is ridiculous
(0:23:21) Kev: right, in fact, I think
(0:23:24) Kev: It’s helpful to consider like if we compared it to harvest moon sort of the originator of all these like why?
(0:23:32) Kev: StarDoo is successful.
(0:23:34) Kev: I think that’s a useful lens to view things here like seeing that comparison and seeing how these other games that have come out of the StarDoo or Harvest Moon original sets a very good- It illustrates how well they do or how close they appear to StarDoo or whatnot.
(0:23:58) Kev: So yeah, it’s most unfortunate that the-
(0:24:04) Kev: This video doesn’t address that at all. It just kind of completely brushes it off to the side.
(0:24:08) Kev: And so, early on, he- One of the core con- er, eye points he’s making is that the, you know, genre talk, good old genre talk, right? Like, he doesn’t want to use the term “farming games” because, as he points out, other games have farming like Animal Crossing, Minecraft, so on and so forth.
(0:24:34) Kev: And, you know, we’ve talked at length about this subject, right? Like, that’s why we switched to the whole cottage core to kind of fine-tune that. And he’s trying to fine-tune that a term better to suit this genre, what he’s trying to discuss.
(0:24:50) Kev: And he comes up with the term “neighborvania”, which isn’t just- It’s a-
(0:25:04) Kev: I am not a fan of this term at all. It is, I mean, first of all, the name, I think, the term “neighborvania”, jeez, did I actually say “neighborvania”?
(0:25:18) Kev: “Neighborvania” is a term he comes up with, and I think that just sounds awful just to begin with, just like, as a term, like-
(0:25:26) Kev: But the way he’s defining it, like, I don’t like it either.
(0:25:34) Kev: So, there’s the two portions of it, the neighbor portion of it, he is arguing that so many
(0:25:43) Kev: of these games focus, tie back to the town and the neighbors.
(0:25:49) Kev: And I can test that to some degree, like clearly it is a huge portion of the experience in
(0:25:58) Kev: the game, but it is very possible.
(0:26:04) Kev: So, it is possible to play Stardew Valley and Harvest Moon without that, right?
(0:26:10) Kev: Stardew Valley specifically, right, gives you the freedom to not have to interact with
(0:26:15) Kev: anyone whatsoever.
(0:26:16) Kev: My brother Calvin actually is very much like this, so when he plays any farming game he
(0:26:21) Kev: generally gives almost no attention to social interactions and relationships with neighbors
(0:26:28) Kev: until maybe he’s felt satisfied with his farm and whatnot, right?
(0:26:34) Kev: I think the farming aspect of it is still very much front and center because, right, like
(0:26:44) Kev: if you look at say Animal Crossing, which is clearly not Stardew or farming or whatever,
(0:26:48) Kev: right, like that’s very much focused, that’s much more focused on the town and neighbors
(0:26:54) Kev: more so than Stardew or Harvest Moon, I would say.
(0:27:00) Kev: You know, but it is also still a very large part of it
(0:27:04) Kev: So I can kind of see the argument there, right?
(0:27:07) Kev: But the Vania part, I mean one like I said, I think it just sounds stupid, but he contends that
(0:27:14) Kev: The you know traditional Metroidvanias are maze like
(0:27:19) Kev: To paraphrase on their maze like games with sort of nonlinear progression and whatnot
(0:27:26) Kev: Which he compares to Stardew which is you know, you play at your own pace
(0:27:30) Kev: however you want, so it’s non-linear in that sort of
(0:27:34) Kev: way with different avenues and mechanics you can
(0:27:37) Kev: explore and whatnot and well I mean first of all I think that’s a
(0:27:42) Kev: misunderstanding of the metroidvania genre because I would contest that they
(0:27:48) Kev: are very not 100% linear but very much more linear focus than say Stardew
(0:27:55) Kev: Valley or whatever right like there is a large map that you that is all
(0:28:03) Kev: all generated once or they have to
(0:28:05) Kev: the way that upgrades drop and whatnot
(0:28:08) Kev: the progression is somewhat linear
(0:28:10) Kev: at least bottlenecked or designed in a way
(0:28:13) Kev: to guide you in certain ways
(0:28:16) Kev: it’s not just a go out and explore the whole thing
(0:28:21) Kev: I… I… So…
(0:28:29) Kev: So yeah, like the big two thumbs down for this term, neighborvania, both as a just how
(0:28:40) Kev: it sounds and for like how he defines it.
(0:28:45) Kev: And it’s funny because in the video like I feel like he’s trying to define his new term
(0:28:50) Kev: but kind of muddies it immediately right because like he just kind of includes animal crossing
(0:28:56) Kev: in there but you know
(0:28:59) Kev: like Animal Crossing without the farm or because it has farming in the very
(0:29:04) Kev: most bare sense kind of fits in there because he you know he’s saying that
(0:29:08) Kev: there’s these different sorts of core pillars you know farming, mining,
(0:29:12) Kev: interacting neighbors and these games and this “genre” have them to
(0:29:18) Kev: various degrees and and whatnot like I mean yes that’s true in this genre he’s
(0:29:26) Kev: trying to define but doing it so to
(0:29:29) Kev: that much of an extreme almost feels like it’s muddying his very this
(0:29:33) Kev: definition he’s trying to create and then it all I don’t know it makes it not
(0:29:40) Kev: again I don’t understand what how he’s trying to coin this when he’s you know
(0:29:44) Kev: kind of generalizing so much and again genre talk is always you know always
(0:29:50) Kev: hard to do that to begin with but it’s just the way it’s he presenting it like
(0:29:54) Kev: I don’t know he’s kind of shooting himself in the foot if he has like but
(0:29:57) Kev: to get to the other focus.
(0:29:59) Kev: I have a very fundamental disagreement on how he is defining as a ripoff. I don’t know if there is a hard definition of the word ripoff or whatnot. I’m not going to try to define it. But at least in the context of this conversation.
(0:30:27) Kev: Um…
(0:30:29) Kev: He…
(0:30:31) Kev: One of the weird things to me is that he claims that triple-A games that are farming-focused are bigger rip-offs than smaller indie games of Stardew Valley, right?
(0:30:45) Kev: And he’s using other ones like…
(0:30:48) Kev: Big ones like…
(0:30:50) Kev: Fae Farm?
(0:30:52) Kev: Um…
(0:30:53) Kev: I think that was on the list of examples.
(0:30:56) Kev: Um, he is- Harvestella was prominent.
(0:31:00) Kev: In the- excuse me, um, in, uh, in what he, uh, the examples he used, um, um, Rune Factory, so on and so forth, um, which I think is absolutely ridiculous to call that, uh, say, Harvestella is a bigger stardew rip-off than, say, Fields of Amistia.
(0:31:22) Kev: Right, because Harvestella is, I think, so fundamentally different in so many ways.
(0:31:30) Kev: Or, so many aspects, not just mechanics, right, right, like the presentation of it alone, right, the, um, it’s so much farther and disparate than, say, Fields of Amistia compared to stardew.
(0:31:46) Kev: I think it’s kind of ridiculous to say that it’s more of a rip-off than Fields of Amistia.
(0:31:51) Kev: Um, and his argument is, quote-unquote, “intent,” right, the com- big triple-A companies are trying to cash in on the, the-
(0:31:59) Kev: farming game hype and, and creating a stardew rip-off.
(0:32:02) Kev: Well, and again, like, this is why I think it was kind of ridiculous to not include Harvest Moon, because I don’t think Square Enix created Harvestella to rip-off Stardew Valley.
(0:32:14) Kev: I think they were just creating their own entry in this genre that is sta- that was established and existed well before Stardew Valley, thanks to Harvest Moon’s story of seasons.
(0:32:23) Kev: Um, he- actually, he includes some of the later Harvest Moons as, as stardew rip-offs, which…
(0:32:29) Kev: Again, I think is, is- uh, like, obviously, yes, they’re influenced by Stardew Valley, but they’re also influenced by the, you know, series they took the name from.
(0:32:38) Kev: Um, so it is wild to me that, that, you know, that’s kind of how he’s arguing that that’s what defines a rip-off.
(0:32:46) Kev: Um, right, and like, I mean, me personally, like, like, this is a, a very, almost sort of muddy topic to get into, because it-
(0:32:59) Kev: some of it is very subjective, right? Like, how much is influence versus rip-off, and so on and so forth, um, right?
(0:33:05) Kev: Like, that’s a nebulous question that, that isn’t easy to answer, or whatever, right?
(0:33:10) Kev: I’ve already used one that I know well, let’s say, look at Roots of Pacha. I call it a Stardew rip-off, uh, just for the, you know, the, the shorthand and, and, uh, just for almost a comedic tone, right?
(0:33:24) Kev: tone, right, because clearly they are not trying to create some
(0:33:29) Kev: a quick shovelware ripoff of Stardew Valley, which in the video, you know, you discussed
(0:33:36) Kev: this, there are games that very much do that, not necessarily in this genre, but absolutely,
(0:33:41) Kev: right? There were flappy bird ripoffs, right? Or vampire killers, you know, lots of clones
(0:33:47) Kev: and whatnot, right? There’s many of them quick, short mobile games, quick and dirty, done
(0:33:54) Kev: just to kind of try to cash in. Like, yes, intent is part of it.
(0:33:59) Kev: And what defines a “rip off”, absolutely. But, like, at the same time, there’s no denying
(0:34:06) Kev: that, say, Roots of Pacha has a lot of direct inspiration from Stardew Valley, right? One
(0:34:14) Kev: of the items he discussed in the video is the UI, the toolbar that Stardew values and
(0:34:21) Kev: how many other games use it. That, I think, is an excellent example of ripping off, right?
(0:34:29) Kev: And he discussed in the video, too, there are other ways to present it, the stylization,
(0:34:33) Kev: right? The appearance and whatnot. But there are many games that are very, very much directly,
(0:34:43) Kev: are very one-to-one, look like a Stardew UI, the way that the tools and toolbar and such
(0:34:50) Kev: are organized. And again, not that these devs are trying to necessarily, but like, you know,
(0:34:55) Kev: they see it works and and the
(0:34:59) Kev: Framework is there the blueprints there so they can go off it pretty easy and whatnot
(0:35:03) Kev: But but that’s just it right like you know if you’re going that sticking that close to the blueprint
(0:35:08) Kev: It’s hard for me not to say that it’s very much a stardew clone or a ripoff or whatever, right?
(0:35:15) Kev: so that’s uh
(0:35:18) Kev: So yeah
(0:35:18) Kev: so like I just though his whole argument on this aspect of what makes the ripoff or whatnot is I think just
(0:35:26) Kev: Absolutely wild I’m missing some key fundamental discussion
(0:35:30) Kev: But again, not ne- I mean, first of all, like, the Rootbop has such a bad connotation to it because, and rightfully so, because that exists in other products and games and whatnot, right?
(0:35:40) Kev: Again, just trying to, uh, cheat fake knockoffs of other items and whatnot that absolutely exists
(0:35:47) Kev: Um, and it’s not necessarily a bad thing in this, at least in the context of these games here, because Stardew Valley is a very quality game
(0:35:56) Kev: and there are a lot of people who use
(0:35:59) Kev: a lot of these direct influences from
(0:36:01) Kev: Stardew Valley, like Roots of Pacha, but
(0:36:04) Kev: those are, again, it’s very solid
(0:36:07) Kev: blueprint, very strong foundation and so
(0:36:09) Kev: you know, there is, it’s sensible to base
(0:36:12) Kev: a game off that. Right, and you know
(0:36:16) Kev: going from that though, like there are
(0:36:18) Kev: devs who put more effort into other
(0:36:21) Kev: aspects of it, right, like Roots of Pacha
(0:36:23) Kev: changes the whole setting of it. Wild
(0:36:25) Kev: Flowers goes 3D and then that’s the whole
(0:36:28) Kev: the magic component.
(0:36:30) Kev: We have Coral Island with their emphasis on the underwater world, and all this, and the different art style, right?
(0:36:37) Kev: You know, a lot of these games are brilliant in their own way, and they definitely establish themselves and whatnot.
(0:36:44) Kev: But, uh, so yeah, that’s why it’s fine.
(0:36:50) Kev: Even if I were to say a Stardew clone or a Stardew ripoff, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.
(0:36:59) Kev: And I think it’s clear to see when there isn’t a lot of effort or thought into it that is clearly just trying to cash into something.
(0:37:10) Kev: And so many of these games are not right.
(0:37:13) Kev: We talk about it at length on the show, the kind of issue that Stardew has set this tone,
(0:37:20) Kev: and so many other games have kind of cashed, you know, ride this wave or entered this space, and they’re so similar in feeling and whatnot.
(0:37:29) Kev: It’s more just, it’s more almost a comment just on how difficult it is because of that, because of how saturated this space is with these games that feel so similar in their aesthetic or how they’re linked to Stardew Valley.
(0:37:44) Kev: Stardew Valley is, and like Story Seasons, they’re kind of the titans in the room, and everything’s gonna get compared to them. They’re just inevitable.
(0:37:53) Kev: Like I said before, I don’t think you can just not acknowledge that.
(0:37:59) Kev: Contrary to kind of what was said in this video.
(0:38:01) Kev: I think the other big, clear example that is always easy is Pokémon, right? Any monster-catching game is going to get compared to Pokémon.
(0:38:11) Kev: Right? Like, Pokémon just dominates and just defines that space, right?
(0:38:17) Kev: And even, like, I enjoy so many of them, like, there’s Nexomon, Cassette Beast, there’s Digimon Games, all which can be very, very different Pokémon.
(0:38:25) Kev: want even power there’s the whole greenhouse episode you want to listen to
(0:38:30) Kev: that like they all exist in the space and they’re gonna get compared to
(0:38:34) Kev: Pokemon 10/10 is another good one right where sometimes they are very close or
(0:38:40) Kev: like a set beast maybe they’re not close at all but they’re still gonna end up
(0:38:44) Kev: getting compared because Pokemon just is too big and it exists it’s just the
(0:38:49) Kev: nature of our I think our limited time and energy and we can put into these
(0:38:56) Kev: things and so it’s it is a helpful way
(0:39:00) Kev: to discuss these genres and in games for
(0:39:02) Kev: as a by comparing them um but yeah um so
(0:39:10) Kev: yeah those are just some general
(0:39:12) Kev: talking points off the of the video
(0:39:16) Kev: right like I’m just going off some notes
(0:39:17) Kev: I wrote here I like if I wish I had
(0:39:20) Kev: somebody else here to kind of go in
(0:39:21) Kev: death but but you know maybe we can get
(0:39:24) Kev: some other another stab at this topic
(0:39:27) Kev: and get some other voices on the on the
(0:39:28) Kev: the…
(0:39:30) Kev: the topic um but these are just some notes I have off here um one of the other questions
(0:39:36) Kev: that we were considering or that al asked us to was like um okay um you know is there a better
(0:39:49) Kev: name for this uh for this quote unquote neighbor neighborvania game um right other stardew clone
(0:39:57) Kev: start a ripoff whatever you want to call it right is there
(0:40:00) Kev: a better term for it or something to define it I’m right and it’s tough
(0:40:06) Kev: because like obviously we have cottagecore and I think that’s a I think
(0:40:11) Kev: that’s a great first step like that’s why we switch to this right like I think
(0:40:16) Kev: of the story of season Sudoku game I play not Sudoku Picross game excuse me
(0:40:23) Kev: that I still play because I like Picross that much like that’s a quote-unquote
(0:40:27) Kev: a cool cottage core game even though it’s just Picross but because it
(0:40:30) Kev: And then the music and the vibes and all that right like I’d still put it in the cottage core label, right?
(0:40:38) Kev: So is there a better even more niche term that we could use for these games that feel so heavily compared to stardew
(0:40:48) Kev: Like on my own I can’t think any like I stardew clone has worked
(0:40:52) Kev: So well and makes it I think very clear like what I’m trying to imply, right?
(0:40:56) Kev: I obviously started clone instead of ripoff because I think that again
(0:41:00) Kev: That gets rid of that negative connotation. I don’t think is always necessary, but like it still does point it out, right?
(0:41:08) Kev: There’s not necessarily anything wrong with being a stardew clone
(0:41:10) Kev: But it does kind of illustrate what you’re going for and maybe that’s to your benefit. Maybe that is what you want to go for
(0:41:19) Kev: But you know and it’s tough because all this is you know, it’s not
(0:41:25) Kev: It’s not like this can be measured in concrete units or whatever, right?
(0:41:30) Kev: It’s muddy the little legs there or the degrees that people these games are developed to be different from stardew
(0:41:37) Kev: We’re not in the different aspects and whatnot. So I I
(0:41:41) Kev: Don’t know if I could think of a term but certainly not neighborvania. Like I said, I think both
(0:41:47) Kev: Both parts of it made or don’t make sense for it. Um, so personally like I just stick with stardew clone
(0:41:54) Kev: I wish I had someone else to
(0:41:58) Kev: you know bounce off or
(0:42:00) Kev: work on workshop a better term for that but hey like like I said maybe we can
(0:42:05) Kev: somebody else can revisit this topic or maybe you dear listeners can send in
(0:42:10) Kev: some ideas for a better term than neighbor Vadya yeah and you know I
(0:42:15) Kev: think that would be good to hear get some emails in or comments and we and we
(0:42:19) Kev: could discuss that further as sort of a follow-up to this because yeah honestly
(0:42:24) Kev: that’s I think that’s roughly all I have to say on in terms of response to this
(0:42:28) Kev: video.
(0:42:30) Kev: But, and so, yeah, I’m gonna call it there for now.
(0:42:35) Kev: So, I hope that was okay.
(0:42:37) Kev: And like I said, I think more than anything, I wish there were some other voices in this.
(0:42:40) Kev: And I’d love to hear more responses or input from other folks.
(0:42:45) Kev: So, whether it comes from some of the other hosts or from listeners sending in feedback,
(0:42:50) Kev: I’d love to hear that myself.
(0:42:52) Kev: See if someone can think of a better term for
(0:42:54) Kev: a Stardew clone than the awful name of his neighbor mania.
(0:43:00) Kev: Yeah, but anyways, so yeah, that’s all my thoughts on that topic and
(0:43:06) Kev: With that, I guess I can kind of start wrapping up here. So
(0:43:10) Kev: If you want to find me on the internet, you know
(0:43:12) Kev: If it says always find me on at Cooper’s on Twitter or at Spritersquared on Twitter to see my art account
(0:43:18) Kev: I I’ve been a little inconsistent with posting but I have been posting the progress of my
(0:43:23) Kev: September challenge stuff, so we don’t check it out on there
(0:43:27) Kev: But more importantly fire you can also
(0:43:30) Kev: at Coopers on blue sky I’ve made the migration over there I will likely get
(0:43:35) Kev: up an art account going on there as well um but yeah obviously you know Twitter
(0:43:43) Kev: has been just the trash fire for a long while but I think the block fiasco going
(0:43:50) Kev: on kind of she was a maybe not the final coffin but it was a pretty important one
(0:43:58) Kev: and a lot of other people.
(0:44:00) Kev: I thought I would have kind of made the jump and it felt appropriate for me to.
(0:44:04) Kev: I’m not like I’m blocking anyone or anyone’s blocking me or whatever.
(0:44:08) Kev: I don’t have enough social connections for that to happen.
(0:44:12) Kev: But I will say I’ve enjoyed Blue Sky.
(0:44:15) Kev: It does feel like a chiller Twitter.
(0:44:18) Kev: It’s a lot more relaxed.
(0:44:20) Kev: I guess that’s probably also for not following as many people and whatnot.
(0:44:23) Kev: But it’s not as clogged up by all these ridiculous ads and whatnot.
(0:44:30) Kev: Just being in the personal Elon fire, trash fire, not having to deal with that is nice.
(0:44:40) Kev: It is a breath of fresh air I would say.
(0:44:43) Kev: So yeah, check me out at Cooper Res on the Blue Sky as well.
(0:44:46) Kev: But that’s just me.
(0:44:50) Kev: Oh, how can I forget?
(0:44:52) Kev: Also, feel free to check me out at Rainbow Road Radio, the Mario themed podcast I do with our mutual friend Alex.
(0:44:58) Kev: Um, we just did.
(0:45:00) Kev: We did an episode on, you know, it’s Halloween, October, whatever, so of course we had to do an episode on Luigi’s Mansion 2, following up from last year, right?
(0:45:10) Kev: We, you know, seeing how that went.
(0:45:14) Kev: And, hey, there’s a bonus voice, our good friend Nami is on that episode to discuss this game with us, and honestly, I think it was a great episode, a lot of good discussion.
(0:45:23) Kev: The game, hey, the spoilers, the game, I like it, thumbs up, so check it out, and hey.
(0:45:30) Kev: It just came out on Switch, right? So, you know, if you’re curious about it all, I highly encourage folks to go give it a listen and get an idea of what to make of the game.
(0:45:40) Kev: Um, but yeah, that’s little old me, Kevin.
(0:45:44) Kev: Um, but if you want to find out more about this beloved podcast here, I mean, you’re already listening, so, but if you want to follow up more of the other non-audio updates and news, follow @THSPOD on Tumblr.
(0:46:00) Kev: And Twitter, um, to get updates as I’ll post them out and whatnot.
(0:46:06) Kev: Speaking of which, Al, you can follow him at the Scottbot on Twitter, or on Mascadon.Scott, excuse me, Mascadon.Scott on, well, Mascadon.
(0:46:16) Kev: Um, uh, yeah, so feel free to check that out.
(0:46:21) Kev: I didn’t, I chose Blue Sky over Mascadon because, like I said, some other folks I was interested in thought hopped on there, but also, I still can’t get over the toot thing.
(0:46:30) Kev: Mascadon, is that still the case? I don’t know, but I don’t like it. I don’t like it at all.
(0:46:37) Kev: But hey, if all that social media nonsense is too much of a whirlwind, just head on over to harvestseason.club, our direct website, so you can get, you know, links to everything I’m talking about here in this episode.
(0:46:49) Kev: There’s form for feedback. Put it in there. We’ll read it up on the show.
(0:46:53) Kev: So, like I said, I’d love to hear other folks’ thoughts on a better term for Stardew clone, um, because I, I don’t know.
(0:47:00) Kev: I couldn’t come up with one off the top of my head, but, uh, yeah, that, uh, check it out there for all that good stuff.
(0:47:06) Kev: Or, or, if you, you know, you’re feeling real cool, you can head on down to patreon.com/thspod to, uh, you know, drop, uh, drop, um, a couple dollars, you know, flash a dollar or two, and maybe, just maybe I’ll, uh, let you into our exclusive clubs, uh, like the Slack, where we, uh, chat with all the listeners.
(0:47:30) Kev: And the hosts about the, the episodes and whatnot. Um, so, uh, yeah, check that out. And you can get access to the Greenhouse, our, uh, evergreen exclusive extra show on things, non Cottagecore game focus.
(0:47:50) Kev: Um, that’s always fun. Huge backlog that you guys can listen to, but all sorts of different topics. Um, uh, and they’re great because they’re not news focus.
(0:48:00) Kev: Um, so yeah, go ahead, check that out. Again, harvestseason.club, patreon.com/thspod, @thspod on the tumblr and the twitter to find all the news links and stuff.
(0:48:10) Kev: Uh, thank you, dear listeners for, uh, you know, entertaining me for this time. All just, you know, me rambling to myself. Thank you, Al, for having me on.
(0:48:19) Kev: Granted, I don’t know if you, I don’t think he actually knew his solo at this point. So, uh, surprise.
(0:48:27) Kev: Uh, but yeah, until, uh…
(0:48:30) Kev: Dear listeners, have a good harvest!
(0:48:34) Theme Tune: The harvest season is created by Al McKinlay, with support from our patrons, including our
(0:48:45) Theme Tune: pro farmers, Kevin, Stuart and Alisa.
(0:48:48) Theme Tune: Our art is done by Micah the Brave, and our music is done by Nick Burgess.
(0:48:53) Theme Tune: Feel free to visit our website, harvestseason.club, for show notes and links to things we discussed
(0:48:59) Theme Tune: in this episode.
(0:49:08) Kev: and tune in next week for next week’s edition of the harvest season
(0:49:16) Kev: take care everyone take it easy